Building a Healthy Marriage – Interview with Scott & Kristen Kedersha

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Plus it could be more affordable than what you’re currently paying right now. So if you’re interested in finding out more about Samaritan Ministries and what they could do for your family and your medical needs, please go to Marriage after god.com/s. That’s the letters SM Marriage after god.com/sm and find out more about Samaritan Ministries and see if it’s got a good fit for your family. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Marriage Effort God podcast. In this episode, I get to have the pleasure of talking to Scott and Kristin Kha. Scott is the pastor of marriage at Harris Creek Baptist Church in Texas. Him and his wife have been doing ministry in the marriage space for about 20 years it sounds like, and they share their story of how they met, how they got married, how God saved Scott along the process, and then how they got into marriage ministry. Also, we had a really awesome conversation about children and about loving our children, about parenting our children and how that is the greatest thing, the greatest ministry we have outside of our spouse. And so I just pray that you enjoy this conversation with Scott and Kristin Kha. Hey, I’m

Aaron. And I’m Jennifer

And we’re the hosts of the Marriage After God podcast. Our desire is to help you cultivate a marriage that chases boldly after God’s will for your life together.

We want to invite you to subscribe to our show wherever you watch or listen.

We are so glad you’re here and we pray that our discussion truly blesses you and your marriage.

Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. I’m sitting here with Scott and Kristen Kha. Welcome to the show guys.

Thanks for having us. Good to be here and way to go and ing our name correctly.

I got it

Can be tricky.

Crushed

It. I say it out loud several times. Try

Crush

It. What’s funny is there was another episode that I was interviewing and the woman’s name was Tanya, but the way it was spelled, I kept saying Tania, and so she stopped me and she’s like, it’s Tanya. I was like, oh, thank you for telling me before we started recording. So that was very gracious of her.

Yeah,

So yeah, KHA, that’s how you say it, right?

Yeah. Cool.

Have it. So Kristen, I don’t think we’ve had the pleasure of actually meeting, right?

No. Nope.

Okay. I have not. So why don’t you tell me a little bit about you for a second. This is my first time saying hi to you.

Sure. So I am obviously married to Scott. We’ve been married 23 years. We have four boys. 20, 20, 17 and 16. I just signed my last driver away to

The

State of Texas and I’m a physical therapist. I’ve done that for almost 30 years now. I probably do the math and know how old I am and I’ve done that, which has been incredible just to supplement to be able to do ministry with my husband, to raise four boys with my husband and to also just to get to do what I love doing and helping people out.

Amazing. So you guys are in the next season that I’m working my way towards in the next 10 years with your children because all mine are under 12 and all years are over 16. Is that what your youngest was?

Yes. Oh my

Goodness. That’s amazing. So maybe we’ll talk about some of that. I need some advice. I’ve got girls and boys quickly heading in that direction. Scott, we met back in, I was just looking this up back in 2019.

That’s right. We

Both got picked up to go have interviews in the same day. Me and my wife and you, not together, but you had an interview at Family Life Studios and so did we on our different books.

That’s right.

What was that book you had published back then?

Yeah, that was ready or not, 12 Conversations for every Couple has. Wow. Ready or Not, 12 Conversations Every Couple Needs to Have Before Marriage

And

That came out with Baker Books 2019

And then you had one recently called Ready or Not and it was a prayer book.

Yeah. The Ready or Not Prayer Guide came out in October of 2023, a hundred prayers for couples who were seriously dating and engaged.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah. So we’ve been kind of in contact since then back and forth and I was on your show a little bit ago, which was awesome, and back then I said, Hey, I want to have you on my show and here we are. So now we’re going to be talking about what you guys do and your ministry and hopefully encourage our audience with marriage advice. How long have you guys been married? You said 20.

23 years.

Wow. I’m close. We’re going to be 18 years in January, which is weird to say. It feels like it’s been maybe 10 years. The first half of our marriage felt super long and then the second half has felt really quick

So

Far.

So you’re almost at your voting age. Your marriage is almost old enough to vote.

Our marriage is almost old enough to vote. That’s funny you brought that up. Someone was just mentioning how when you become an adult, so when you become 18, 19, 20, at 20 years old, they’re like, you’re a 2-year-old adult. And I was like, that’s interesting to think about it that way because you’re like a child for so long and then a teenager, but then you become an adult and all of a sudden you’re supposed to do adult things and I think it’s where the viral term of adulting has come from is this idea of being an adult doesn’t make it mean it’s easy to be an adult. We’re all learning. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

We have 2-year-old

Adults

Bragging my wife really quick, so she talked about the four drivers. So all four boys are driving and I have this weird fear, Erin, that it’s like an irrational fear, but I do not getting behind the wheel of the car with my boys when they were learning how to drive.

It’s

Either a control issue or a fear issue or I just couldn’t, I’m not afraid of a lot of things, but this was just a real big fear and to my shame, Kristen is able to do it incredibly well. So she trained all four of our boys to drive and I very rarely got behind the wheel or got in the car with them when they drove. Not proud of it, but I’m so proud of my wife just the way that she did that so well and she actually coaches them better than I would. She actually pays attention more closely, so it works to everyone’s benefit that she’s the one training them, but I’m really proud of her four or four, she got off four boys with license licenses. Are you the more patient one with the

Kids? Probably.

Oh, there should be a pause. It’s 100%. She is the more patient one.

It’s giving you some grace. Yeah, thank

You. That’s

Some loving grace

Benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, it’s not easy. I mean I could be a white and yes, all of them are like, just stop. Why are you all the things that you do as a parent holding on or you should have done this. I think they’re all glad to be done with me as their backseat driver. Kind of. Sort

Of. Okay. Then I have one more question about this driving stuff. Who’s the better driver

Of us

Or

Of our kids? No, I don’t

Know. I think we’re both pretty good drivers.

Okay.

We’re both, I mean we have no tickets, no accidents in a long time and we pay attention. She probably is better. She pays a little more attention than I do, but I think we’re both good drivers. Yeah,

Sounds like your kids got good experience and good examples, so that’s good.

I think so. Good know they’ve

Done okay.

There’ll be good drivers on the road, safer that way.

So far we’ve done pretty well.

So I know Kristen, you shared a little bit of your background. Why Don? I’d love to have some biography so that my listeners can just know who you guys are. You guys said 23 years married, you have four kids. I’d love to know some more context on your marriage, how you guys came together, the ministry you guys are now part of at your church. Harris in Texas.

Yeah,

Yeah. I’ll let

You guys go. Tell our story. Why don’t you tell our story?

So I was already working in Atlanta, which is where I went after PT school and worked in a hospital there was doing what’s called neuro rehab, so spinal cord injury, head injury, that kind of rehab. Scott was in Atlanta as well and was a PT student. And so when you’re in PT school, nursing school, medical school, you do residencies or you do internships and so

He

Was assigned to the hospital. I was working at the time for an eight week internship and he was assigned to me as my student. And so that is how we first met. It was not as scandalous as it might seem. He was my student for eight weeks and then he came back to work there later.

It was definitely love at first sight for one of us, for the student, but not for the teacher. She had no interest in me whatsoever and I wasn’t a Christian at the time. You are a brand new believer.

Yes.

She’s older than me. She’s competent, has a degree, has a job,

And

I’m this young man who has a massive crush on his teacher, so I tried to convince her to go out with me. She wasn’t interested for a long time and then finally somehow convinced her somehow.

Did you guys send a thank you card to the instructor that put you guys together?

Yeah, I was so grateful. It was, in fact, I had a friend who was a student at the same hospital the prior eight weeks and she sent me, I don’t remember who we were texting, there were probably email back in that day and she sent me an email. She said, Scott, I know you, I just have a feeling that you are going to have a massive crush on your clinical instructor. And she nailed it. It was like from the moment I saw her and it was obviously when I said love at first sight, there was no, it was either attraction at first sight or mildly infatuated at first sight. It was definitely, I am so thankful that this happened and the rest is history. Finally already got her to go out with me. We dated for a season. It was really unhealthy, physically, emotionally crossed boundaries in every way.

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I became a believer in the process of us dating right before we dated, and so we’re two brand new followers of Christ, trying to figure out how to date one another and it was really unhealthy. I was obsessed. I had a massive crush. My life was Kristen became an idol. It’s essentially probably what I would say and if she was nice to me, I had a good day. If she was mean to me, it was the worst day ever. I would literally go in the chapel in the hospital where we worked and cry if she was mean. It was so pitiful and pathetic and it was a codependent idolic relationship for me. And we broke up at the urging of our community. So Kristen was in a community group of other single women. I was in a community group of other single guys and her group of friends and my group of friends convinced both of us around the same time that we needed to break up because it was such an unhealthy relationship. When we were dating, we broke up for five or six months. I was convinced that we would never, ever, ever get back together quoting the infamous Taylor Swift that

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I was convinced there’s no way this relationship will ever happen again. And we both got really serious about Jesus. If I look back at all my years of life, it was a season of the most intense growth that I think I’ve ever had and I think, would you say the same?

I would agree,

Yeah. Yeah. Just really grew in our affection for Jesus, started serving the church, got really serious about our faith, and during that time I think somehow I grew an attraction to Kristen and so she actually asked me out on a date for round two. She said she had a gift card that she won and needed to use it on somebody. And it’s almost like I was a surprise mine as wellbeing surprise. Well, yeah, but I think she kind of thought I was cute the second time around and so Is that fair?

Yes. Yeah. I think I

Realized, sorry, go ahead, finish.

No, I think I realized what I was possibly walking away from. He was different. He was kind and thoughtful and once the idolatry part was gone, I think it was easier to look at him and be like, oh, this is somebody I could spend my life with. And he now was in love with and following Jesus, we weren’t just talking about hypotheticals or what that would look like, and so it changed things for both of us

And we both went through counseling in that period of time too. I dealt with, started to deal with some of my identity issues and why I was so obsessed with Kristen, struggled with pornography, masturbation, and so really just talking through those things with somebody who pointed me towards Christ, who encouraged me, who challenged me. And then I think also really just getting serious about the church and using our gifts to serve others. So it wasn’t, my life wasn’t just so focused on me. I was learning how to give to others, how to become healthy, how to deal with sin struggles. And so it was only six months and obviously it wasn’t like everything was fixed in those six months, but it set me in a different direction. And same with Kristen. She dealt with her baggage and her issues and wasn’t perfected and complete, but she made some serious strides in her relationship with Jesus and started to become a really different person.

He talks about how mean I was, which is most people wouldn’t believe that, but I really was. And it was partly I had been in a really long-term relationship right before and I was really codependent and kind of missionary dating this guy and that relationship didn’t really end. It didn’t end well and it didn’t end. He just kept coming back. So it kind of put me between two guys. I think I was trying to find my identity in which person I was dating and it was just a mess. Once I finally walked away from both and could focus on the Lord and who I was in Christ and just kind of get my head straight, I was a much kinder, more Christ-like person.

There’s a couple of things I think about. It’s pretty unfortunate. Your story is probably very similar to many people’s stories on how they’ve, like they’re dating and courting and coming together with their spouses. It’s so unfortunate that we don’t have much in way of training and help when it comes to this idea of figuring out our life partner who we’re going to marry and supposed to be walking with for the rest of our lives together.

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And I am just hearing your story and I’m like, man, just like I had to figure it out on my own. You guys had to figure it on your own and there’s so much pain in that and dysfunction as well, but how awesome God is that even in the midst of those things, he still helps us figure things out and he still guides us. And it sounds like God still had his hand on you, Kristen, because you were the one that was following him and Scott didn’t and it sounded like God had a plan for Scott also and being connected with you. So Scott, did Kristen play a role in your coming to Jesus?

Yeah, I’d say kind of indirectly. So it was a really neat thing that God did that I started interning at this hospital, Kristen was working there, and I came back and took a full-time job there about eight months later when I graduated. And there was a group of eight of us who just started working at the hospital and every single one of them were either brand new followers of Christ or kind of recommitted their lives to Jesus. And so we had this co-ed group of eight of us who did everything together. We went to church together, we did these co-ed Bible studies and I don’t know if I would necessarily recommend that we did that in addition to some same gender Bible studies, but we went to church together, went to Bible study together, worshiped together, talked about our faith, grew together. And so she was a part of the group that helped really introduce me to the body of Christ and then also played a huge part in my growth as a new of Jesus.

That’s good.

Yeah.

So Chris, this second time around with Scott, because you said you kind of were missionary dating the first time this second time it was less about trying to convert Scott and that’s kind of maybe where some of that attitude came from toward him was like, IM not

Possibly. Yeah, possibly. And really Scott and I, he had just become a believer. It was my previous, it was my ex who I was missionary dating for a long time. And so I think though when we both got serious about Christ, it was more like I could follow Scott as he followed Christ instead of trying to direct things or control things or manage things, which can be my tendency.

But I do think so much of our story of unhealthy dating and emotional boundaries and physical boundaries that fuels so much of our passion for helping couples do this in the right way. And so you said you’re very similar and other people who have that same kind of story and I know the pain and dysfunction that we walked through, it wasn’t like on a scale of one to 10, it wasn’t a 10 out of 10, but I see the way that we did things and I’m like, I want my kids to do things so much differently than we did. I want young couples in the church to not make the same mistakes that we did. I don’t want them to cross boundaries physically and emotionally like we did. I don’t want them to sin in ways that we did. And so it’s largely fueled some of this desire to help develop grow healthy marriages came from our own story and our mistakes and sins that are part of who we are and part of our past.

Let’s talk about that. That was actually the next place I was trying to go is you guys are in marriage, your marriage pastor at Harris Creek Baptist Church in Texas. How did you go from married, you had your past and your story and then now you’re in ministry doing this exactly for what that reason you’re talking to trying to encourage couples and future couples on this path. So tell me that.

Yeah, I think long story short, so I didn’t grow up in a Christian home. I found pornography when I was seven years old for the first time, full on addicted by the time I’m 1213, started living out everything I saw sexually as a teenager and my college years and I just hated myself, Aaron. I mean it was like this. I was not proud. I wasn’t a believer, nowhere near a follower of Christ, but I knew these things that I was doing were not healthy, we’re not right, taking advantage of women and using them for my own pleasure and nothing illegal, anything like that. But I knew that something just wasn’t right. And went through undergrad in North Carolina, wake Forest University succeeded in every way the world would tell you to succeed. I had all the friends, all the grades, all the accolades and hated myself, suicidal, wanting it to end.

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There’s got to be something else. And that’s the time I heard the gospel for the first time. I didn’t respond to the gospel as a 22-year-old, but I was intrigued by it. I moved to Atlanta, go to grad school for physical therapy, meet Kristen. We start going to church. I keep hearing the same gospel over and over again and finally it clicks. And the biggest obstacle honestly was that God couldn’t love me because of my past, because I had done so many gross things. I was so addictive, pornography, living out whatever I saw. And finally when I understood grace, it just changed me in a way that scales fell off my eyes. Brand new person, the old has gone, the newest come, graduated from PT school, started working as a full-time physical therapist and love what I did. But all I wanted to do was tell people about Jesus.

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I wanted to tell people about this God who I was blind, but now I see redeemed my past, changed my story, gave me a passion, gave me a purpose, and I kept working as a pt, but I just couldn’t shut this thing off. I was sharing my faith as a physical therapist. I was on mission as a pt, but I just wanted to my whole life to be about pointing people towards Christ. So we got married, moved, we were in Atlanta at the time and about one month after we got married I told Kristen said, Hey, I think God is calling me into full-time vocational ministry. And it was a little bit of a surprise and at the same time she said, I’m not surprised one bit. I see the passion in you. Everyone around us confirmed it. And so we made the decision, got married the week of nine 11, so it was September 11th, 2001.

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We got married that same week, September 15th, 2001, a month into marriage. I said, I think God’s calling us in ministry, calling me into ministry. And we moved from Atlanta to Dallas, Texas for me to go to Dallas Theological Seminary, did a four year degree in seminary in Dallas. Our plan, putting quotes around it, is to finish seminary and go back to Atlanta. God had different plans, took a job at Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, working as a marriage pastor. Didn’t even know what that meant, but it was the job that was available, put food on the table, paid the bills. And in little did I know how much I would love this job that we got to pour into marriage as young marriage, pre-marriage. We got to do ministry together and it forced us to work on our marriage. We had a good marriage. But I think it’s forced us to be very intentional to be able to say, follow us as we follow Christ. One Corinthians 11, one, and we had so much fun serving together. And so we’ve been doing marriage. I’ve been doing marriage ministry for almost 20 years full-time, getting paid to do it. Kristen has been the

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Best unpaid volunteer in marriage ministry ever. The way that she comes alongside serves still does work as a pt, but we get to be on mission together in so many ways pouring into couples in every season of life.

Chris, do you have anything to add to that?

No, I mean he’s spot on. It’s been quite, I mean it’s just been fun. I mean there’s lots of hard in marriage ministry. Everybody I think realizes if you’re married that there are a lot of hard things, but it definitely has. We would not be as well married as we are. I don’t think if this was not what God has had led Scott to, he is very intentional and he takes very seriously follow me as I follow Christ. And so I think our marriages would look radically different had we stayed in secular PT jobs, both of us and not had to just be there for other people to see. And not an arrogant, we’ve got it all together at all, but we are going to be very intentional. I wouldn’t do that on my own. And so it’s sweet to know that my husband’s not going to let us slide. He wants to finish well and not be a casualty of ministry or any of the things that we all are coupled dumb decisions away from doing something that would end our families, our jobs as pastors and those types of things. So it has been sweet.

I think this is Scott and Kristen, what you guys were just talking about, the example, this is probably one of the biggest detriments just in general in the church at large, the way people have displayed their marriages before their children, like our parents and our parents’, parents of this lie of do as I say, not as I do. I do these things, but that’s not what you should do. Which is essentially the epitome of hypocrisy. That’s right.

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And so this idea of living an example that people can follow, you’re a marriage pastor and you guys have this accountability of we’re trying to not say do as I say and not as I do. You want to do as I do, and I’m telling you what we do, but this truth works no matter what vocation you have is that as believers we are to attempt to walk in a way that is honoring to God and abides by his word so that when we go stand before someone else and say, here’s I don’t do it perfectly, but here’s the idea of what I’m trying to do. Here’s my life and my example as I try and follow Christ as Paul says, he is like do as I follow me, as I follow Christ. And it’s something I try and encourage couples all the time with is not just before your children, which that’s our first and most amazing ministry we have outside of to our spouse is to our children and trying to show them an example to walk in and how we engage in work and how we engage with our neighbors and how we deal with our finances and how we deal with our arguments, how we deal with all these things that we are going to make mistakes in.

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But it’s how we deal with them before our children, before our spouse, before the people around us. So I think that’s a really good thing to be reminded of. What is the example that we are walking in? Is this something that we can tell not just our kids, but anyone be like, Hey, I don’t do things perfect, but I think you can absolutely follow my example as I’m trying to follow Christ. And so that’s a huge thing, not just for people that are in marriage ministry, it’s for any marriage, any Christian in general.

That’s right. A friend of mine said this really well years ago and I’ve never forgotten. He says, couples aren’t looking for perfect examples. They’re looking for living examples.

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And I love that phrase because we can’t be perfect this side of eternity. We’re not going to be perfect. But what I think that looks like to be a living example is one, to be really faithful to do everything I can to follow Jesus and that Christian would do the same. And when we fall short, we admit it, we confess it. We have a phrase around here at our church, we say we shine a spotlight on something when we mess up. We don’t pretend the problem’s not there. We don’t brush it under the rug, we don’t ignore it. We don’t blame it on something or someone else. We take responsibility for it. And in fact, I’d say that maybe one of the, I’ve asked our kids this before, what have you learned the most from us? And one of the top examples always is what to do when you mess up.

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And so they’ve learned maybe areas I’ve fallen short or we’ve fallen short, but what does it look like to own it, to apologize for it, to ask for forgiveness, which is so difficult in marriage and in parenting, but when you realize that we can’t be perfect, then why is it so difficult? It shouldn’t be difficult to say, I am sorry I was wrong. Will you forgive me for X, Y and Z? And so it’s made a difference in our kids and our kids know we’re not perfect and I think they would say they’ve seen the gospel lived out so many times in us because we are very open with where we struggle, how we struggle and then being, I don’t like to say we’re humble enough, but to be humble enough to admit it and then seek forgiveness from others when you fall short.

I love that the idea that we are to our flesh wants to always minimize our sin, always hide our sin. And especially for people that are in ministry like vocational ministry, there’s a temptation often to be like, if I show that error, if I show that mess up, then I’m going to be showing that I’m a hypocrite or that I’m not a good example or that I’ve, why am I here teaching these things? But in reality, the example is repentance and not minimizing, not trying to put the blame on someone else, but actually just to confess and repent. We do the same thing with our kids and we try and we say our sorry, we’re sorry to our kids a lot. Can I ask we forgive me. You didn’t deserve that. You didn’t deserve the way I was acting or way I was treating you or the way I was talking to mommy or anything, trying to go to them and just let them know that I made a mistake. That wasn’t what I want to be. That’s not how I want to act. And so that’s a good example.

I love that. I love that phrase, you don’t deserve that. What a humble statement to make that you are just acknowledging my faults, my sins have impacted you, right? And I want to do better. You deserve better. It’s such a kind way to own your stuff with your kids.

Yeah, I hate when I have to do it, but it’s because I did something that deserved it. So

Scott, I love that word at church real quick. I love that word at church where it doesn’t feel like I lose credibility when I mess up and admit it and ask for forgiveness. In fact, it’s such a great way to model for the body of Christ. And so our lead pastor does an amazing job of that on a Sunday morning, he’ll admit and confess when he falls short and all that does, it builds credibility with people instead of pushing them away or the people that are pushed away by it I don’t think have a right understanding of the gospel and of grace and of forgiveness. Most people, if they really grasp that, then they can relate to you and it doesn’t give us license to keep on sending. Right? Paul doesn’t say that when you send, you keep sending more and more and more. We are to pursue Christ and that to pursue holiness. But when we fall short, having almost the freedom to confess and it doesn’t, I love that culture of authenticity and we try to build that kind of culture of authenticity in our marriage as well.

Well, there’s two different types of transparency and confessing. There’s the one that a lot of people use and it masquerades as humility, but what it really is is celebrating like, oh look, I’m a sinner. You’re a sinner. We all sin and I sinned again. And it’s a celebration of the brokenness, which is not at all what repentance should be. And then there’s, I’m dragging these things in the darkness into the light to make them become light. And so I’m actually confessing this because it’s not right and I’m repentant over it. I’m broken over my sin. Kristen, in your marriage that way of Scott is talking about, of wanting to be open and wanting to be repentant and not being afraid to confess and not being afraid to be changed in those areas, does that make him feel safe to you? I’m asking this specifically because of something I think about it, but go ahead.

Yeah, absolutely. I know that when he is willing to confess to bring things to light that I don’t think I’ve ever caught him doing anything. Well, I can think of one, no. I mean he is quick to confess. He’s quick to ask for forgiveness, and so that makes it, when I mess up or I need to seek forgiveness, it makes it really a lot easier because I don’t think that he thinks less of me because clearly he has offered to ask for forgiveness, so he’s going to offer that to me as well. That’s right.

Yeah. I brought that up because I just think the most dangerous people that I’ve ever known are ones that never seem to feel like they need to apologize for anything. They always beat around the bush when it comes to behaviors or attitudes or when they’ve done something and it’s like that was wrong, and then they justify and they minimize. But I think the safest people are the ones that are willing to confess and to ask for forgiveness and change. So when you’re talking about your pastor coming up and sharing, he’s like, I messed up this week and I just wanted to bring that up. And it’s not celebrating. He’s truly repentant over it. And that’s a safe

Pastor

Because I see lately there’s a lot of pastors that their life seems to be perfect and there’s no confession of anything until you find out big things and you’re like, oh man, and you’re hurt and you’re like,

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How could I trust anything you’ve said? And so I think there’s huge safety for being people of God who are genuinely listening to the Holy Spirit and humble enough to win the Holy Spirit convicts us to be like, man, I’m convicted. I do this a lot. I’ll leave a dinner date with friends and I get home and either my wife will be like, Hey, you said this, this and this. And I’m like, oh, I didn’t even think it that way. And you’re totally right. That was rude. That was inconsiderate. And I’ll just quickly right away, hey, I don’t know if you noticed this or not, but I said this and I’m so sorry that that was really rude of me. That was not my intention, but I did say it and I’m so sorry. I’m going to work on that. And I just want to be someone that’s quick to, and there’s definitely things that are easier to quickly repent up. Can

I ask a question on that? Yeah. I love that your wife can challenge you lovingly in a way that says, Hey, you may not have seen this, but you did X, Y, and Z. How did you create that kind of culture in your marriage where your wife can tell you that? Because I think a lot of marriages, the husband can’t say that to the wife and the wife can’t say that to the husband, and that feels really unhealthy. So how did you get there in your marriage to be able to do that?

Well, that’s a great question. I think there’s a couple of, the first thing I thought of, there’s a couple of elements that make this possible for us. My wife is very hypersensitive to other people and how we’re perceived as a family and how she’s perceived and how I’m perceived. So she’s, I’m way less aware, and so I could be talking and blah, blah, blah. I am not even always thinking about everything that I’m saying or how I’m saying it or in the context of what I’m saying. And so I think she’s sensitive to that. So often it’ll be like she felt uncomfortable when I said something and no one even said anything to her. She’ll just be like, Hey, when you said this made me feel uncomfortable because of this, this, and this. And so there’s just a natural tendency in her to want to bring that up. But she does bring it up to me lovingly often. I think the second thing is, the first part I’m going to answer is I think a lot of marriages struggle to do this because the moment you attempt to keep your spouse accountable in something, essentially you’re saying, I also want to be held accountable.

(37:39)
And I think there’s a fear of, I’m not going to say anything to you on this because I don’t want you to say anything to me on my stuff. And that may be subconscious for most people. If this, I can’t say anything, I really wouldn’t want her to say anything to me or vice versa. But we do. We both have this kind of unspoken permission and not unspoken. We’ve talked about it actually as we care about each character, we are one, it’s how I am is how my wife is, how my wife is, is who I am. So how we represent ourselves to others and to each other and to the outside world affects each other. We, I mean, it’s not always done well. Sometimes it comes out and sometimes I’m defensive and sometimes she’s, there’s just all the variables. But in general, we have an open relationship with not open relationship. We have an communication totally different thing.

(38:41)
We do believe that we should be allowed to speak to each other and bring up things that even if I didn’t think I was wrong in something, I said if she felt uncomfortable with it, I get to wrestle with that and be like, well, I may not think what I did was wrong, but my wife didn’t like it. And so I get to think about how to deal with that, either tell her I’m going to work on it in the future and be more cautious with how I share something or have a conversation with her and ask her why she feels that way. So lots of different ways of dealing with those things. But that was a great question.

Really good. Thank

You. So you guys ministry together, Scott, you’re in full time. Kristen, it sounds like you volunteer and help a lot. How do you balance the ministry side of things with the marriage and family side of things and make sure that, especially you brought up, you said there’s lots of things that are hard in marriage and when you’re dealing with lots of different kinds of marriages and different kinds of personalities, the weight of some of those things could be pretty heavy. And so how do you in healthy way keep protection over your marriage and your family and ministry? That’s a great

Question.

That is a good

Question. Yes.

I think we’re always a work in progress in balancing, if balancing is a word. And there are also seasons of ministry where there is more heavy pastoral care stuff. And then there are times, part of the great thing about Scott Java here is that he’s starting the marriage ministry from the ground up. There wasn’t anything here when we came. And so that can look like we do a lot of stuff for marriage enrichment. So it’s not always the things that are really heavy that he’s dealing with. He gets an opportunity to create content and to really just get people excited about being married and to look forward to working on their marriage. And so that part of the job I think helps to balance the harder emotionally draining, time draining part of the heavy pastoral care. We also try to make sure that we are doing some of the fun side, which is typically for us, the premar and the newly married.

(41:06)
And so instead of being on the defensive and trying to help people reclaim their marriages and figure out how to undo sometimes years of history of not doing things well or hurting each other, we love to be on the offensive, so engaged, seriously dating and newly married. And so that’s really, I would say that’s what our greater passion is in general is just helping people know that they’re stepping into a good relationship and then helping them start their marriage on just a solid foundation of Christ and the things that go on in life that we all have to navigate as Christ’s followers and doing that in a way that’s honoring to the Lord love. I dunno if that answered the question.

Love. Yeah, and I’d say the other thing I’d add is that there have been different seasons of ministry. So 18, almost 19 years of full-time marriage ministry. Now the kids are 20, 20, 17, and 16. We just have more flexibility and margin now than we did 10 years ago, right when the kids were 10, 10, 7 and six. That’s survival mode. That’s every Saturday, soccer games and basketball games. And every evening there’s a concert or a teacher meeting. And now with two outside the house out of the house, our 17-year-old is gone all the time, working, driving, hanging with friends. Our 16-year-old just getting his license, busy with school even. We just, we’ve got more margin now to pour into couples than we ever had before, which can be a detriment. That can be a problem because I will work all the time if the needs are always there. And so there’s never a time, never a time when I’m able to close the computer, shut the door and go, great. I have helped every marriage all the ways I possibly can. My job is done, what?

Check, retiring.

It’s never there. And so that’s the biggest challenge I think when it comes to figuring out how to juggle it all, is that there’s always more work to be done. And so sometimes it just has to say, okay, I’ve got to focus on my relationship with Jesus. I’ve got to be growing spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically. I’ve got to take care of myself, take care of my body, get some sleep. Kristen’s got to do the same. I’m the only person on this planet who can love Kristen as her husband.

(43:48)
A lot of people can do my job, not everyone, but a lot of people can do my job. One person can be Kristen’s husband, one person can be the dad to Duncan, drew, Carson, and Lincoln. A lot of other people can do those other jobs. And so I’ve got to make sure I’m taking care of myself, taking care of my spouse, my kids, and then whatever’s left goes towards the job. And then at the end of the day, I know I’m not going to get everything done and if I drop a ball or two, I drop a ball or two or drop eight or 10 balls. It’s just a reality of knowing my job is never done and then God loves and cares for those marriages a lot more than I ever could. And so God doesn’t need me. I’m going to be faithful, do the best I can, love others well, love my family well, and then know that God’s got it. God doesn’t need ska Doha to do anything. He allows us to be a part of his work.

I love that. There’s a couple perspectives you just said that I just want to highlight. You are the only man, you’re the only person who can fulfill the role of husband to your wife and vice versa. Kristen’s the only one who can be your wife. And I think we, in our marriages, we can, I don’t know if it’s a forgetfulness. I think it’s an overlooking the fact that I am the only person that can fulfill the role of husband to my wife in every aspect. And that’s a good thing. It’s a powerful thing. And my wife’s the only one who can fulfill the role of wife to me. And that’s a huge thing that as husbands and wives, we need to recognize and remember that no one can replace us, no one should replace us. And we need to be thinking about that on every aspect with intimacy, with friendship, with partnership, with everything that comes with being called husband or being called wife as is the right order of how God designed it. So you talk about busy seasons and it’s probably in a busy season right now with everything coming up, holidays and whatnot. Kristen, how do you ping if you feel like Scott’s been able to not turn off, it’s been like nonstop. What’s your strategy to get his attention to say, Hey, I need you. I need us. I need some time. I need you to turn off that over there for a second. Yeah,

I’ve got some paper here. I’m going to take some notes right now. We’ll be good for me to learn.

That’s a really good question. I’m not sure I have a way that I do it. Honestly. I think we both typically come to a point where we have missed each other, just we’ve exchanged information. I’ve told him where kids are going to be and what the next event is and put it on his calendar. And so I think we both get to the point where we’re like, oh, we need to do something different. Scott does a good job of also putting either, and some of this is Scott and some of this is just the natural rhythm of life, like, Hey, it’s a fall break in the beginning of ministry. I don’t think we did a good job of making those breaks, our breaks with our kids. I would, because I ran the school calendar and I took time off and I did those things. But as our kids have gotten older, I think we’ve tried more and more to make sure spring break is a break on the calendar and Scott takes the week off and we do something this weekend actually just the two of us are going to Nashville to visit one of our college kids.

(47:29)
And all week we’ve been like, oh, I’m so glad this is on the calendar. And so partly it’s just making sure that there’s something that is sometimes we have to physically remove ourselves from the city of Waco in order to truly unplug and just not feel pulled towards people in ministry and things like that. But to my detriment, I can be very self-sufficient and I can sometimes be like, Hey, this is really important work that he’s doing and I’ll, I’ll just stay in my lane. And so it typically takes both of us to be like, oh wait, we love each other and we need to spend some time and have some fun together, not just have a conversation that needs to be had, but to do something fun.

Well, I would imagine that that emotional and spiritual connection of, like you said, we’ve been surface level, we’ve talked, we’ve been present, we’ve been here. There’s no animosity. No, but you’ve not been deep. You haven’t been in each other’s space and minds and hearts, but those things are probably the most necessary things, Scott, for ministering to people like you said, Chris. And we need to us time so that we can go out and when we’re done, we can be like, Hey, here’s why us time is so important. That’s why time with your spouse is so important. I just went for my 40th birthday. My wife and I went to Hawaii together.

Oh, come on. Happy birthday.

It was our first time going without kids since we were married.

How was that? Was it awesome?

It was. I mean, a few hours in we missed our kids and we’re like, we wish they were there playing in the water. And we just realized how much fun it is having kids with us all the time. But it was so special. Just dinners and lunches and walking and swimming and spending time with just each other was so good for us. And it just made me, I was like, I want to do this every year. Not necessarily Hawaii, but I want to go somewhere. Just me and you. I love that. I love reconnecting. You’re talking about Kristin,

But I love that you’re like, we went away. We’re in Hawaii. There’s not many more beautiful places in the world. You’re with your wife who you love and you miss your kids. What a healthy perspective to have to you though, Aaron. I think that’s one of the biggest problems why couples don’t get married and why they don’t have kids is because we so often hear, oh, marriage is so hard and you’re going to die. And it’s selfish. We talk negative about marriage all the time.

(50:05)
We talk negative about kids all the time, about what a burden they are, how much money they cost, what a drag, but how refreshing to hear you say we’re in the most beautiful place, one of the most beautiful places in the world. I’m with my wife and we miss her kids. That’s a good feeling to have. And I think Kristen, one of the areas where she’s helped grow me the most is in growing my love for our kids. And she lovingly will remind me that we only have a couple more years until the nest is empty. And so let’s make the most of every opportunity. And so for a season, for a few years, we’ve even taken a step back from working on our marriage. And in some ways we’re working on our kids. We’re going to pour more of our energy than ever into our kids because in nine months, the third one’s coming off to college, and in two years, nine months, the fourth one’s going to go off.

(51:07)
And so we will always have a role to play with our kids. We’ll always get to encourage ’em and challenge them. It’s going to look different, but for the next nine months and then 33 months with our two at home, let’s just be as intentional as we can. And we’ve got a great marriage. Our marriage is in a place where we can do that, and we don’t need to focus on our marriage as much right now as we do in making the most of this time we have with our kids. And it’s grown. Not only has it changed our marriage, it’s also grown my affection for our kids where I’d say I love them more today than I did a year ago, two years ago, 10 years ago. Because we’re more focused on encouraging them, challenging them, being present with them, developing them, discipling them. And it’s been such a good shift in our marriage. And Kristen has largely played the role that’s helped help change the way I think about it.

Well, I love that. And you’re right, this has been something, especially, I’ve been talking about this, I’ve hitting 40 last April, just all of a sudden I’m thinking about things in different perspective and I’m getting challenged on my whole worldview of everything,

(52:20)
But mainly just recognizing the immense weight that I have of raising my children. I can’t control their salvations, I can’t control them, period. They’re unique human beings. But just recognizing that this next 10 years is the most vital 10 years of my kids’ life with me and my wife. And so just recognizing the weight that’s there and how much we love them and wanting them to know the Lord, wanting, trying to disciple them as best as I can, trying to be an example for them, but also just helping prepare their future, this podcast and this business that I have, and just trying to figure out how this will play a role in that

Good.

But I’m just realizing how weighty it is raising my children. And the most important thing I’m ever going to do in my life are these kids, not this podcast, not my books, it’s my children, but the most important thing, and they’re my image bearers, me and my wife, I should say, but what does that image look like and how am I helping develop that? And so it’s awesome to hear that you guys are also in that same perspective and just desiring to pour into that and work on it, not at the neglect of the marriage, but at the fruit of the marriage. Like, hey, our marriage where we’re at, we need to be together working in our children and showing them who Christ is and being those parents that God’s called us to be. And my greatest desire is that my kids will come to me and my wife for advice in the future, that they will trust us and that we’ll be the first people they call. I know that they’ll have other people, but I desire that they see us as people that they can come to and trust and say, here’s the person I’m falling in love with. Here’s questions we have about this, and here’s, here’s where our heart’s at and how do we navigate this season? I just desire that so much.

So good.

Well, go ahead. You were going to say something.

Two thoughts on what you said. One is, look, you guys, you and Jen and your ministry, your books, podcasts have all had a huge impact on thousands and thousands of couples. We can’t put a number on it. Same with what we’ve gotten to do with books, podcast classes, premar, newlyweds. I don’t know what the number is, but I really do believe that the four marriages, assuming and hoping all of our kids, and if our kids don’t all get married, that’s great. That’s whatever God has for them. But if all four get married, and even if they don’t, the fact that we will have raised these four disciples, these arrows that will shoot out as Psalmist would say, and really believing that the discipleship of those four will have a greater impact for generations than the other couples, even though numerically it’s not even close. The amount of investment and impact we’ll have on our four has tremendous potential, and we really believe that. Then the other thing I love that you said is we have a similar goal that our kids will want to be with us when they don’t have to be.

That’ll be great.

Yes. When our twins graduate college in less than two years, they’re going to go take jobs. They’re probably going to make more money as a 22-year-old than I make as a 51-year-old just given the direction that they’re headed and they don’t need to come home. But our hope is that they would want to keep coming to be with us, to seek counsel from us. I love, we’ve got one of our 20 year olds is in a dating relationship. It’s kind of the first longer serious relationship any of our kids have had, and it’s so fun to get to encourage him and answer questions and speak into it. And I love that we get to play that role. And so we’re bearing some of the fruit that we’ve from reaping the harvest from all the years of work. But we have a very similar, our hope our kids will keep coming to us for the rest of their lives. I hope that’s the kind of relationship we have with them.

So awesome. Would you guys like to share any last encouragement for our audience before we close out?

I mean, I think I’ve given my life to helping grow healthy marriages for premar, newlyweds and Richmond crisis, everything in between. Married for a minute, empty nest, every season of life, and I love you need to help marriages, but I become more and more firmly convinced that you don’t grow healthy marriages by studying the Bible about healthy marriages. You grow a healthy marriage by investing in your personal relationship with Jesus. And if a husband does that

(57:23)
And a wife does that, this book, this Bible is filled. It’s all about relationships, our relationship with God, our relationship with others, our relationship with friends, with kids, it’s filled with wise guidance in every part of our life and mostly about God’s relationship with us. God’s love for us, and so you want to have a great marriage. Don’t study the Bible to have a great marriage. You study it to become more like Jesus, that you would live out what He calls us to do, and so you want to have a marriage after God. You don’t pursue a great marriage, you pursue a greater God.

Amen.

Anything you add?

Nope.

No,

No. Scott, Kristen, where can you guys have a podcast, right? Or Scott does. I don’t know if Kristen, are you part the podcast? Scott?

What’s that podcast called? Sometimes it’s called More Than Roommates and we just want couples to be so much more than just roommates. It’s a Harris Creek Baptist Church, our marriage podcast, and so the best episode is when we had this guy, Aaron Smith on there, so listen to any episode, but come find the episode with Aaron on there.

That was a good episode.

So good.

Well, Scott and Kristen, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure meeting you, Kristen. Yeah,

It’s great to meet you,

Aaron.

When my wife and I are in Texas and you said Waco.

Waco,

Yes. We’ve been there one time. We’d like to go back. Maybe we can have dinner with you

Guys. Come on, come visit again. Magnolia’s a ton of fun to visit. Yeah, I’ve

Been there.

Have a surf park. We have. You guys have a surf park? We have surf. That’s

Cool.

Californians come here to surf all year round,

So cool. I’ve never surfed before

Me neither.

First time I surf in Texas. That’s right. That’d be awesome. That’d be funny.

(59:07)
Well, I really appreciate you guys giving your time today, and it was very encouraging. I loved the talk that we had about your children and just raising children. That was very encouraging and just also the relationship you guys have and the love you guys have for the Lord and for seeing couples just grow closer to God. Like you said, Scott is so good. We don’t have better marriages by seeking a better marriage. We get it by seeking a better God, by seeking Jesus Christ and becoming more like him. Again, thank you so much for being on the Marriage After God podcast and yeah, appreciate you guys. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Aaron,

(59:58)
Do you desire to pray more for your spouse? Do you desire to pray more with your spouse? We understand that you may not know where to start or maybe you feel uncomfortable praying or maybe you don’t know what to pray, or maybe you simply want to add something more to your current prayer life. This is why we wrote the Marriage Gift 365 Prayers for Our Marriage. We desire that it would be used as a daily reminder and catalyst for you and your spouse to grow a dynamic and consistent prayer life together. This book is a compilation of 365 unique and powerful prayers that cover a range of diverse topics that every marriage deals with. You can read it alone or ideally you read it with your spouse. Also, we hope that the topics that are brought up in these prayers would become a starting point for deeper and more intimate conversations with your spouse and a desire to seek God on these matters together.

(01:00:44)
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