How to Speak Life Into Your Marriage w/ Dave & Ann Wilson

Aaron Smith (00:17)
Dave and Wilson, thank you so much for joining the Marriage After God podcast. Welcome to the show.

Dave/Ann (00:22)
We’re glad to be here. Thanks, Erin. It’s good to be with you.

Aaron Smith (00:25)
Yeah, we, I was just reminding you guys, we actually sat down with you guys in your studio, the Family Life Studios, way back in 2019 when we launched the Marriage After God book. And so we have a little bit of history, but you guys are still going and doing the Family Life radio, right?

Dave/Ann (00:40)
Yeah. Yeah. This is year eight. Yeah. I think I mean, the program’s been on radio and now obviously a podcast for 35 years with Dennis Rainey, Bob Lapine. And then we took over the last eight years, seven, eight years. Family life today. It’s fun.

Aaron Smith (00:44)
So incredible.

Yeah.

It’s amazing.

Yeah. just encouraging guys, encouraging people through not just the podcast and family life, but you guys have been writing books. We’ll talk about one of them. One of your newest books coming out here in a little bit. But what are some of the other things you guys have done? I just want to give my audience like an update on who the Wilsons are.

Dave/Ann (01:14)
Yeah.

Yeah. What have we done? Well, what have we done? We’ve had three kids. We have seven grandkids and we’ve been married 45 years. So that’s a lot that we’ve done. Those are the most important things. Yes. And that’s been super fun. Yeah. We grew up in Ohio and moved to Detroit ⁓ way back in the mid eighties to be the Detroit Lions chaplain. That’s what brought us here in ministry.

Aaron Smith (01:24)
That’s the most important thing you’ve done probably is these children and the grandchildren. 45 years of marriage is incredible.

So cool.

Dave/Ann (01:44)
And so I spent 33 seasons on the sidelines with the Lions and we saw many guys and wives and even kids come to Christ. We just didn’t win any football games. Now, now they’re winning, but they weren’t winning when I had I was part of one playoff win in 33 seasons. ⁓ I know. See, that’s what I said. I guess that’s true. That’s why so many people came to Christ. They’re going through trials. ⁓ But

Aaron Smith (01:54)
Hahaha

You were probably most necessary during that season because of all the losses, right?

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (02:13)
⁓ Then we started speaking for the Family Life Weekend to Remember, marriage weekends around the country. And that’s how we sort of got to know family life. And then, yeah, I don’t know where they sort of asked us if we would consider taking over their broadcast. And that was eight years ago. And then we helped start a church and we did that for 30 years. And then we transitioned out and we’ve been doing all marriage stuff basically since then. We do…

We also do a vertical marriage conference is what we call it. And it’s been really fun. And you guys know when you see marriages transformed and legacies transformed for Jesus, it’s pretty great.

Aaron Smith (02:50)
and

Yeah, I just, I was just having a conversation with another person I interviewed a few weeks ago and we were just digging into this idea that the core foundation of, of not just the world, but the church is, is the family and how, ⁓ it’s so cool. Like, well, there’s a lot of churches that have not emphasized family as much and they’ve emphasized other ministry, which is not necessarily bad. The ministry is good, but if we were to dig down into this, what you were just talking about is focusing on the core of what.

Dave/Ann (02:56)
Hmm

Yes. Yes.

Aaron Smith (03:23)
I mean, God started the world with a family, you know? And that, yeah, and that is what the church is. It’s a bride and a groom, you know, coming together. And so you’re totally right. ⁓ The Weekender Remember thing, my wife and I did that so many years ago. was an influential book. When we were going through some of our struggles, someone recommended that. And actually, I think someone blessed us with a Weekender Remember. ⁓ And we went to that and it was…

Dave/Ann (03:26)
Exactly. Yeah. Before the church.

Yeah.

Did you?

Yeah.

Mm.

Aaron Smith (03:52)
transformative for us. So it’s really cool that you guys have also, you were teaching that guy, speaking at that for a while. And I love all the little connections that we have here. So.

Dave/Ann (03:58)
Yeah. Me too.

Aaron Smith (04:03)
⁓ Tell me a little bit about because we’re get into your book in a little bit, but really Oftentimes these these books come out of our experiences. So I just would love to know I mean 45 years of marriage. That’s Amazing. It’s in some sense. It’s a miracle these days with because that’s not that’s not the story for most people these days I think ⁓ I think the the world the country I should say at least is coming around to recognizing the value of commitment and ⁓ and

Dave/Ann (04:17)
Yeah.

Aaron Smith (04:33)
I feel like we went through decades of just, you know, easy, you know, getting, getting out of things and grass is always greener and, know, this isn’t making me happy, so let’s move on. But I feel like there’s a shift toward family and we need more marriages like yours to be an example of what that can look like and, and that it’s not always perfect. in reality, it’s never perfect, but the sticking it out is, the miracle and walking that out with Christ. So I’d love to hear some of the backstory of you guys’s.

Dave/Ann (04:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (05:02)
marriage journey that would probably naturally lead into this book we’re going to talk about.

Dave/Ann (05:07)
it does naturally lead into it. Yeah, mean, the short story and it’s a long one. You know, it really is. ⁓ You know, we actually went to the weekend to remember as an engaged couple. That was our first experience with family life. We didn’t even know who family life was. We both just come to Christ in college. So we’re pretty new in our faith. And the guy that was mentoring us and the.

Aaron Smith (05:13)
Yeah, 45 years.

wow.

Dave/Ann (05:33)
gal that was mentoring Anne at her campus said, you guys, before you get married, you gotta go to this conference. Okay. So we went two weeks to the day before our wedding and you know, Erin is interesting. We didn’t even think we needed it. You know, we sat there with probably a thousand people in a ballroom in Chicago and we were like, we love each other. We love Jesus. We’re going into ministry. Come on. How hard can it be? It can’t be that hard. So we listened, but we really

Aaron Smith (05:57)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (06:01)
didn’t think we needed it. the funny thing now, I mean, it’s sort of sad, but if you would have had like a drone over us sitting in that ballroom and you would have listed bullet points, here’s Dave, 22 years old, here’s Ann, 19, here’s what they’re bringing into this marriage, right? And we knew this, but we thought, it’s all buried in the past. It’s washed in the blood, you know, Jesus has forgiven it. I we’ve forgotten it, so it’s done. Yeah, that’s sort of what we felt, but

Aaron Smith (06:23)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Dave/Ann (06:30)
You know, he can do that. He does do that. He does do that. But sometimes he doesn’t heal all of our inner wounds during that. He wants to walk it through with us. So the luggage sitting under me is two alcoholic parents. And I mean, drunk every night. And my dad was not a happy drunk. He was an angry drunk. So there was beatings and abuse. My mom and us, ⁓ divorce.

Aaron Smith (06:33)
Yes.

Dave/Ann (06:58)
uh, adultery, he had girlfriends. He’d bring them to the house when I was, when my mom and he were still married. I was, I was seven, six, seven years old, had a little brother, five, and then I had two brothers and a sister at 10 years older. So there’s sort of this double family. They get divorced when I’m seven, my mom and I and my little brother moved to Ohio. Um, and my little brother dies of leukemia all in this six months period, which six weeks. Yeah. I mean, obviously hearing it now, you’re like, Whoa, this was trauma.

I just sort of went on. My mom never talked about it. ⁓ I was the only kid, talk about the difference in the world today, the only kid in an elementary school. probably first grade to sixth grade, I was the only kid without a dad in his home. I mean, today, obviously different world, but I was sort of outcast. Obviously some of that creates a drive in me to succeed. And so I’m good athletically and so I got a college scholarship and

Aaron Smith (07:42)
Mm.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (07:57)
I was good musically, so I was in bands. Anyway, that’s what I’m bringing into this marriage. Thinking, know, 2 Corinthians 5, the old is gone, I’m a new creature in Christ, which is true. That’s all true. But if you haven’t processed your family of origin baggage, it’s coming with you. And guess what? Mine shows up pretty soon. But, you know, sitting beside me at that weekend to remember is my, you know, my fiancee, who’s got a little list too.

Aaron Smith (08:05)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (08:26)
Well, one of the things that I carried in was my parents had, they weren’t believers, but they were really good people. They were married 70 years. So I had this pride like, my family’s awesome and you’re so messed up. She told me we got married. said,

Aaron Smith (08:37)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (08:41)
We always thought we were like Noah’s Ark. Like if the world flooded again, God would save the barons. I’m like, okay, you guys aren’t that good. We weren’t even Christians. I never even heard the gospel. So when I went into that conference, I was a new believer in Christ, but I have sexual abuse in my background that happened a lot, not with my family, but with other people that my family didn’t know. My family was very performance oriented and I was a gymnast for a long time. And I remember coming in the house one time as an 11 year old.

Aaron Smith (08:48)
Ha!

Dave/Ann (09:10)
I had done really well at a gymnastics meet. And when I, my dad, said, look at this, you guys, like, isn’t this amazing? Cause I’m the youngest of four kids. And my dad said, hey, we are winners. If you don’t come home without a first, don’t come home at all. And that was kind of the mantra of our family, just incredibly competitive, performance oriented. And so that put this drive in me to perform. It put a lot of things. And then if that sexual abuse,

Aaron Smith (09:26)
Mm.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (09:39)
but also I was the youngest of ⁓ four and my parents really honestly, they didn’t know what was going on with me. I was out doing my thing and the attention was all on the boys and their sports. And so I really wasn’t seen. And so you take mine and you put it with Dave’s and you’ve just got a lot of things that God wants to heal and work on. And so we got to year 10 of our marriage and we were in ministry, we’re serving Jesus.

Aaron Smith (09:48)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (10:07)
And we got to the point, and this is what our first book, Vertical Marriage is about. We got to a point where we went out for our 10 year anniversary. Dave was all excited and we were in the car. starting this church and he’s like, hey, I want to take you to where we just decided the building’s going to be. Let’s pray for the church after this great meal. And after we prayed, which was really close, Dave had some other motives in the car. We were going parking, you know?

Aaron Smith (10:36)
You

Dave/Ann (10:36)
10th and it’s midnight. Nobody’s there. I mean, the next generation is like, what are you talking about? Parking. Trust me. You know, you can figure it out. And I had a high aspirations. We’re in a Honda Accord. You know, what’s going to happen? You know, we’re a four and two year old at home. And so Dave was like super optimistic. We’re gonna have this makeout session in the car. And here’s what was going on with me. You know, he tries to kiss me and I’m like, oh, I know this night has been you put a lot of effort in it, but I had nothing.

Aaron Smith (10:48)
yeah.

Dave/Ann (11:05)
left. And so when he asked me what was wrong, I’m like, Dave, I have no feelings for you at all. I have nothing. I feel nothing. I don’t even care if we’re together. And this had been cycling, we’d been fighting and this was a common like, and I thought, here it goes, we’re going to explode. We’re going to have this big fight because that was usually our pattern when I brought this up. So that night turned out different. Yeah. I mean, it’s a long story, but the short is when Ann

Aaron Smith (11:06)
Hmm.

Move.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (11:35)
Again, I’m shocked. literally, we have a video about this and I say in the video that if you would ask me that day, what’s your marriage on a scale of one to 10? I would have said, we’re a 10. If we’re not a 10, we’re at least a nine eight. And then I find out that night, she’s like- are you kidding? We’re a one, probably a 0.5. And then she’s mad. I can’t even see that, which I didn’t. if you trace back what was going on in our life right then, here I am. Again, now you know the backstory of-

what I brought into this marriage. I’m planting this church and it’s not gonna be a church, it’s gonna be a mega church. I’m a Detroit Lions chaplain, I’m traveling, I’m speaking. I’m just outside the home trying to prove to people I’m worthy. My dad left, all that’s buried in there and most of the things I’m touching are growing and successful. And I’m like, this is just like at home. You don’t see me, you don’t care about me and I’m doing my thing and you’re out conquering the world.

Aaron Smith (12:04)
Yeah.

You ⁓

Yeah.

Mm.

Well, here in the two different backstories, the first thing I’m thinking is, Dave, you’re looking at your marriage and you’re like, we’re way better than my family was. This is amazing. We’re crushing this. And then Anne, you’re like, this isn’t first place. This is… Yeah.

Dave/Ann (12:41)
Exactly. Yep.

Exactly. You got it. That is exactly it.

And I’m like third place is OK in marriage. Come on. See, we needed Aaron to be our counselor back then. Yeah, we needed it. So that night ended that ended up it was so funny. I thought Dave was going to get really mad when I said that. But what happened is he got on his knees in the car in the car with his back in a steering wheel and he started to pray out loud a prayer of repentance. Yeah. When he was sharing what was going on in her heart.

Aaron Smith (12:57)
No, I need it.

Dave/Ann (13:18)
I sense God say to me, repent. Not an audible voice, but the Holy Spirit just really strongly is like, if you think you’re going to solve this marriage and save it horizontally, just the two of you doing marriage stuff, this is about me. You do not have me in first place. You have your ministry in first place. You have what others think of you in first place. You got to put me back in charge. I wasn’t in moral sin. wasn’t

Aaron Smith (13:23)
You felt a…

Mm.

Dave/Ann (13:43)
you know, walking away from God. I was just sort of lukewarm and I just felt like, and I knew this wasn’t about Ann, this was me. I even told her I need to do something. You don’t need to this, but I need to and I need to do it right here. And I just felt like I needed to be in a posture of submission and ⁓ on my knees, just total surrender. So I just prayed out loud and said, God, I’m not the husband you want me to be in. I’m not the dad my boys need. Help me to become the husband she deserves and the dad my kids.

need and I’m putting you back in control and I’m going to follow you and do whatever you want. I repent. Amen. And so I turned to her like, okay, let’s talk. And there she is on her knees. was so funny because if you would have asked me, what’s the problem with our marriage? would have said it’s him. so, ⁓ but when he started praying, I mean, you the scripture that says a gentle answer turns away wrath. had gotten all riled up.

Aaron Smith (14:29)
Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (14:40)
thinking we’re gonna have this big fight. So when he started praying on his knees, I just felt like, And I felt like God spoke directly to my spirit. And I felt like he was saying, Anne Wilson, you’ve been trying to find your life through Dave and your happiness through him. I never made him or created him to fill you up and to bring you happiness. That’s my job. And so I felt like I had made my marriage and Dave an idol.

Aaron Smith (14:44)
disarming.

Dave/Ann (15:08)
I want them to make me happy. I’d take my eyes off of Jesus. I was focusing on Dave and his, basically his faults. And I was so convicted that I prayed basically the same prayer like, Lord, you’re not the master and ruler and the governor and the king of my life. I’ve put Dave in that position. And so I re-surrender my life to you. And then our cry was, Lord, help us. We don’t know where to go from here.

And so that was the beginning of an incredible life change because it took a while for God to heal us, for us to get where we wanted to be. And then what ended up happening, I think we all have these pivotal moments in our marriage. And then another pivotal ⁓ moment in our marriage was what this new book is coming out of. We always have these stories of like, And so that’s kind of where we went.

Aaron Smith (15:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I just want, I want to highlight this for my listeners. ⁓ what you just said, like we all have these pivotal moments in our marriage and it’s exactly, you even talk about this in your book, just, ⁓ God using our marriage as such a refining like thing in our lives. And so we, come to these moments and the, there’s, there’s two responses. There is pride or there’s humility and pride leads to where the most common

Dave/Ann (16:28)
Yes.

Aaron Smith (16:31)
you know, answer is that is nowadays is like, well, I’m not, you’re not making me happy. You know, like, and you pointed the finger, like you’re the problem. And ⁓ Dave, most men wouldn’t have responded that way. I’m just thinking like in that situation, I would immediately feel defensive. I’d feel like, and I know that because I’ve been there. I’ve literally done that. ⁓ but what I want to highlight for my listeners is regardless of the situation, how you responded, Dave is what God wants from us.

Dave/Ann (16:37)
Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (16:59)
Regardless of we think what they’re saying, our spouse is saying is, is fully accurate or true or in reality, like we all need to repent. Like the moment we think we don’t need to repent, that’s, that’s when we need to repent the most. It’s like, actually like I’m a sinner. I have failed. I’m going to fail. So repentance is the most appropriate response right now, always. And so you doing that, like, and what you’re talking about, that is so disarming because, and you were probably, like you said, you were probably preparing.

Dave/Ann (17:09)
Yeah. Yes. Right.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (17:29)
You had your list of things you were going to bring up. You had your, you know, things you wanted to point out. You’re like, I have, I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m going to definitely tell you all the problems. And he’s like, I’m going to pray and I’m going to repent. And you’re like, what? Yeah. And I just want to tell the husbands and the wives like this, what you, what you just described is the option is the better option always for us and our marriages. When we come to these pivotal moments and

Dave/Ann (17:29)
Yes. Yes.

Yep.

Nothing could have disarmed me more. Yeah.

always.

Aaron Smith (17:58)
⁓ The fruit of that moment, like you said, began a journey of so much more good fruit. And I absolutely believe that that’s the case for every marriage that they come to this, these pivotal moments. Choose humbleness, choose repentance, because in reality, there’s nothing your spouse has done to you that’s more unforgivable than what we’ve done to Christ. And yet, while we are still sinners, Christ died for us. ⁓

Dave/Ann (18:03)
Yeah.

you

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Aaron Smith (18:26)
Speaking of that, as we’re recording this, today’s Good Friday. I just wanted to highlight that our Savior so many years ago sacrificed himself for us. So that this story can exist. You’re guys’ story. So praise Jesus. Yep, it’s good. So let’s dig in a little bit. This is this starts a journey, right? You guys yield yourselves to the Spirit of God. You say, know what, Dave, I am the problem.

Dave/Ann (18:39)
Exactly. That’s why it’s good Friday instead of bad. Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (18:55)
Lord, of course, I’m going to accept that. And you repent before your wife and your wife repents before you. ⁓ What I also think is crazy is like the whole world looks at, they probably look at you guys successful, start in a church, you must be so holy. You must be so good and righteous and you love God and you do love God and yet still have this, you come to this place in your life of like, I don’t have anything left. And I just…

Dave/Ann (18:55)
You

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes!

Aaron Smith (19:23)
I think too many people feel like they’re the only ones and they’re not good enough. And in reality, we are all human and we come to these places because we have flesh and it’s in the battle. ⁓

Dave/Ann (19:33)
We’re all flawed and need Jesus. Yes. Yeah, and I

actually, you know, I remember having this thought in the car that night when I realized how bad we were, how bad I was. I remember having this thought if we make it, because there was a time where it felt like our marriage is dead. We may not dig out of this hole. I just remember thinking, I’m going to make sure nobody ever hears this story.

Aaron Smith (19:42)
Mm-hmm.

yeah, sweep that one sweep that one in the rug.

Dave/Ann (19:59)
I don’t want them to hear that my wife lost her

feelings for me. I was just like embarrassed. I just thought, okay, you if we make it, this will be our little story. Just keep it quiet. And then you realize God loves to meet us in our pain and then he uses it to connect us to others in pain. He doesn’t use our victories. He uses our struggles. And he says, look at what this couple made it through. you know, people come up to us now and when they talk to us, it isn’t like, we love how you

Aaron Smith (20:11)
Yeah.

⁓ dear.

Dave/Ann (20:28)
You’re so perfect and everything’s so great. They’re like, we love your podcast because you’re so raw. It’s like you’re in our family. I’m like, yep, that’s who we are and that’s who you are. And there’s a Jesus to meet you right there and let’s go. And I wish, I wish when we got married, somebody would have told us that marriage is really like a roller coaster. Man, you have some great highs and you have some devastating lows and that’s normal because God, if we allow him, shaping us through every one of those peaks and valleys.

Aaron Smith (20:33)
Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (20:58)
but it’s not always easy. It causes us to depend on him, but we have a choice of not depending on him. And man, we’ve just seen it go south when you don’t depend on him. Yep. Yeah. At least us.

Aaron Smith (21:09)
Every time. Literally every time.

It just makes me think what you were just talking about, about transparency and just trying to hide that brokenness and that sin and that lack of trusting the Lord, which is so silly because it’s like, what are we trying to pretend we’re something we’re not, right? It just makes me think of so many of the Psalms written by David from

Dave/Ann (21:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (21:37)
a point of his coming out of his brokenness, you know, being called out on his sin and him just coming to the Lord. the Bible calls him a man after God’s own heart. ⁓ To be a man after God’s heart or a woman after God’s heart is to be humble, is to reveal ourselves and reveal what he’s done, not what we have done or hidden, I should say, because we don’t do anything great without Christ. that’s beautiful. so you have a new book that’s about to be released.

Dave/Ann (21:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (22:07)
And

and it’s it’s it’s your story, but but dave you got your voice in there, which I love and this book’s called how to speak life to your husband. ⁓ this is great for me and dave. ⁓ so ⁓ we’re it’s gonna all be now on no, i’m just kidding ⁓ no, there’s there’s something really beautiful about this message because I I think there’s The culture has pushed too much of a wrong voice for women that they have in this world and

Dave/Ann (22:14)
Me too.

Hahaha.

Yeah ⁓

Ahem.

Aaron Smith (22:37)
The voice that God has for women is so much more powerful, is so much more influential and that’s what your book’s about. so I’d love to just like, where’d the title come from? How did you get this idea? I’m sure you, it’s a 45 year long story.

Dave/Ann (22:41)
Yes. ⁓

Well,

it is. The book really is like a memoir because it’s a story of our journey and my frustration. And I’ll take you back to that. But the subtitle, this was just our fun. Like I knew that at some point I would write a book on this because how to speak life to your husband. The subtitle is when all you want to do is yell at him. So. ⁓

Aaron Smith (23:14)
Yeah, it’s so good.

Dave/Ann (23:16)
And we thought,

when we give it to the editors and the publishers, they’re going to change the title. And they came back and said, ⁓ we’re going to keep it. Because that was just my working title. And they said, we’re going to keep that because I think that people will relate to it. So let us take you back to the day that this pretty much came to. It’s another story, just like Miracle. It’s based on sort of a moment in our marriage that grew to be a mountain.

Aaron Smith (23:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (23:46)
So this was a few years after our 10 year anniversary and we were doing pretty well. At least I thought we were doing pretty well, but I was still frustrated. I don’t know if any of your wives that are listening are gonna relate to this, but I’m like, man, I can see that Dave is this great guy, but if he could just tweak a few things and help me do this and do that, I know that he’d be even better. And so that’s kind of where we were. Our three sons were all in elementary school and life was just busy.

Aaron Smith (23:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (24:14)
And so I was asked to speak at a MOPs group, Moms of Preschoolers at our church. I was overwhelmed. said, Dave, they would love it if you, the pastor, would come and do it with me. And he’s like, yeah, I totally would do that. And so I said, well, what do you want to talk about? And he goes, I don’t know, let’s just wing it. Which I’m like, ⁓ okay. But he’s great at that. And so we get up there and he just starts going. Like I’ve never even heard some of the things that he was talking about.

He like starts getting really animated to these women. goes, women, I don’t even know if you get what it’s like for us as men, because most of us have had parents or somebody cheering for us as little kids and little boys. We get older, we find coaches or teachers that are kind of saying, hey, you’re really good at that. And they’re like, hey, yeah, and they’re cheering for us. Yeah, you’re great at that. And he said, and I played college football. So on Saturdays, I’ve had fans actually literally cheering for me.

And I’m I’ve never thought of that when I was sitting there. And then he brings me into it. said, and then I meet Anne and basically of all the men of the world, she says, I choose you, Dave Wilson. You’re the man. You’re amazing. And I felt pretty proud. Like, yeah, I did. You know, I did do that. And then, and then he gets really somber and quiet. He was really animated. And then he goes, but then we get married and we husbands, you know what happens?

Aaron Smith (25:25)
You’re the cat.

Dave/Ann (25:38)
We walk in the day in the house after a long day and it just feels like all we hear is boo boo boo. And I’m sitting here like, wait, what just happened? I mean, I am devastated. I’m embarrassed. I’m like, he’s never shared any of this zero. The crazy thing, Erin is I had never said that out loud. I just, I was talking to these couple hundred women and

Aaron Smith (25:46)
Hmm.

Dave/Ann (26:05)
and sitting on the stool over there and I was up, you know, I’m all animated and as it was coming out, I’m like, this is exactly how it feels. This I’m articulating this as best as I can. And then as I went and so then when we come home, we feel like all we hear is boo. And I went like that and I turned and Anson over there. She looked at me like. I am dead. Yes. Like, God, I had never said this to her ever in our house. I’m saying it to.

Aaron Smith (26:23)
jaw on the floor.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (26:32)
bunch of women and she’s like, you are a dead man. And we get in the car and she’s like. I was like, what was that? And he goes, I don’t know. It just came out of my mouth. I’m like, that was from God. God gave me that. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so I say to him, you think I boo you? I am helping you.

Aaron Smith (26:45)
Out of the overflow of our hearts, man, the mouth speaks. It was in there. You didn’t know it was in there, but it was.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (27:00)
And

that those were my exact words. And I’m like, do you think it’s working? And I said, no, it’s not working, obviously. And so I have to do it more often and louder. And and so basically he goes, all I know, Ann, is it feels like I can never do anything right. You have to tweak it. You have to fix it. You have to correct me. It just feels like I can’t do anything that pleases you. And I was flabbergasted. I was.

Aaron Smith (27:24)
Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (27:29)
upset, I was mad. And then I basically came home. And this is this was the smartest thing I did. I got on my knees before God. And I’m really honest with God, just like, as you just said, you’re in like in the Psalms, one third of the Psalms are lament. So when I go to God, I tell him, Lord, I am like, Can you believe that he said this about me? You know, I’m just telling God like, Yes. Can you believe that I’m thinking God’s gonna stick up for me?

Aaron Smith (27:45)
Mm-hmm.

How dare he!

Dave/Ann (27:58)
And then I asked God the question, God, can you believe that? And then I said, God, do you think I, do you think I yell and boo and critique Dave? And then there was just this silence in my soul, but I could just feel it because the spirit lives in us and I can feel this. It’s a conviction and yet not a guilt, but a conviction of like, start listening to yourself and start listening to your thoughts and start listening to what comes out of your mouth, your mouth.

Not only with Dave, but your kids. And man, that put me on a journey that was incredibly humbling. ⁓ But it was probably the most life-changing experience. Walking with Jesus through it and with some other good friends through it and being in the Word and studying it. I don’t know if anything has changed our marriage more than that.

because it’s exactly what you said. I didn’t realize the power of my words. And I didn’t, honestly, I didn’t cheer Dave because I thought everybody else is cheering them. They’re like, Pastor Dave, you’re amazing. And I thought he doesn’t need any more. He’s getting enough. And I also felt like if I tell him he’s great, he’s going to think I’m happy. And then he’ll enable him. He’ll think, I don’t need to work anymore at it, which sounds so bizarre, but that was this twisted

Aaron Smith (29:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (29:22)
way I thought about it.

Aaron Smith (29:24)
I think it’s a really common, my wife and I have had many conversations about this and she’s not here to defend herself so I’m not going to go too far into it but just she has voiced very similar things of like I’m afraid that if I say, know, encourage you in this way that it’s not going to, the thing that I’m hurt by won’t change and I would imagine

Dave/Ann (29:34)
Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah.

Aaron Smith (29:49)
because there’s so much dynamics that go into this. You talked about your guys’s past stories and how you were raised. ⁓ But there’s no one more influential in our lives than our spouse. I’m a words of affirmation guy. I actually really appreciate it when someone tells me they appreciate me and encourages me. But more so as I’ve gotten older, I could almost care less about what other people say.

Dave/Ann (29:53)
Yes. Yep.

I didn’t know that.

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (30:15)
And the person I care the most about is my wife. And I think it’s always been that way, but I haven’t identified it. you know, so there’s been times I’ve had, I come in and I’m like, Hey, just, if you just said hi to me when I walked in and came and gave me a hug, like it would be, that would be so powerful in changing my whole perspective of the day. And Dave, you could probably relate to this. It makes you want to like, be more romantic. Not that you don’t want to be, but it’s like, Hey, I’m going Oh, she’s like,

Dave/Ann (30:20)
Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Ugh.

⁓ totally.

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (30:45)
into me. man, I’m gonna go kind of behind her and hug her. I’m gonna go kiss her neck. I’m gonna

go, you know, like it’s amazing that little bit of the kindness and the words that it bring us up. And so it makes sense what you’re saying. I don’t think it’s a unique situation for just you. think it’s probably every single marriage that’s listening right now. The husbands are like, I would use that. I could use more of that.

Dave/Ann (30:56)
Yeah.

And I think this.

And I think like Dave, I’m very verbal about my needs and not everybody is. of us keep it inside. But Dave, like he never told me and I needed him to tell me. But he’s so much kinder than I am. He really is way more. kind. I don’t know. I just held it in. And what happened is.

Aaron Smith (31:18)
Mm

Dave/Ann (31:38)
And I didn’t know it, I didn’t realize at the time, but I was running away from Ann in the home and I was out there, because you know what was happening out there? They were saying, you’re doing a good job, good sermon, good whatever. Then I come home, I felt like you’re not doing a good job. Okay, we’ll see you later. And I didn’t realize that, but I was working a lot of hours and I think it was because I felt fulfilled outside the home and not inside the home.

Aaron Smith (31:44)
Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (32:03)
You know what I said that and we had that conversation. It started a journey, which the book gets into the journey because you know, I didn’t know it. Anne was processing like God’s saying, what do you think about Dave? And then your thoughts are going to be coming out in your, in your, in your tongue, you know, life and death are in the power of the tongue. And so I was feeling death words and, ⁓ what, what changed. again, this isn’t changing a week or even a month, probably six months to a year, maybe even longer.

Aaron Smith (32:21)
.

Dave/Ann (32:32)
She started speaking life words, building me up, saying I’m a good man, a good husband, a good father. mean, it was, and at first, Erin, I was totally like, yeah, whatever. You don’t believe that. You, you read a book about it. You know that, you know, wives are supposed to respect their husbands. I just didn’t buy it. And at first I just supported it. And then she kept doing it. Well, and I started out simply by just saying, thank you. ⁓ Hey, things that.

Aaron Smith (32:47)
Now you’re trying it out.

Dave/Ann (33:01)
he would do all the time, but because of my own pridefulness, I wouldn’t necessarily not say thank you purposely, but in my head I thought, well, who thanks me around here? I knew everything, you know? And you see the pride in that. mean, one night, we’re sitting in a bedroom in our house that used to be a bedroom, it’s a studio. Literally, we’ve been in South 30 years. I can look right outside this door. Our boys’ bedroom was right beside us, and all three boys…

Aaron Smith (33:13)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dave/Ann (33:30)
We’re in the same bedroom. ⁓ and let me say, one of our biggest frustrations in my critique, like, hey, couldn’t you lead spiritually? seriously. Yeah. I had an image of how we should do it, and then I was disappointed, and so I would critique him. And so I asked God, God, show me the greatness in Dave. And what happened is because of the critique, I think I stopped even trying. And I just sort of like, you’re better at me than this.

You got it. Even though I’m supposed to, I know I want to do it. I’m, I’m standing on, I’m standing on stage encouraging other husbands to do it. And then I felt like I just sort of quit. get, keep getting booed. Anyway, I’m walking out after one night of us putting our boys there were little boys at time to bed and we’d sort of made commitment. We want to be in there most nights praying with them, ⁓ doing some kind of Devo and I’m walking, she’s sitting on the, on the stairs there and she goes, man, I am so jealous of your power. I go, what?

Aaron Smith (34:02)
.

Who?

Dave/Ann (34:29)
She

goes, the boys hang on every word. I’m their mom. I go in there, and yeah, But man, you just say something and they hang. You have a power that’s powerful. And the way you led them tonight, just being there with them, that was great. Just super jealous of the influence you have over them. And that was it. Yeah, I walked down the stairs. I’m like, oh, that was nice. You know what happened the next night? I’m running in that bedroom. Hey guys, let’s go. I’m like, I’m good at this. You know, she told me I have power. I mean, she didn’t.

Aaron Smith (34:54)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (34:57)
Manipulate. No, I didn’t do it. I did it because my prayer and you guys God answers his prayer Show me the greatness and the things that my husband’s doing right and well and man God started flooding my mind and in fact, I talk about it a little bit in the book where ⁓ Helen Fisher is a brain scientist and she studies parts of the brain and she’s saying that couples

Aaron Smith (35:02)
Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (35:23)
that say after 20 some years, they’re madly in love. have all of them have something in common. And she studies the three parts of the brain and she says what they have is positive illusion. They see their spouse being even better than they are. And I would think, well, that’s delusional. You know, why would I do that? That’s not even, and yet when we start seeing the good things in our spouse, it creates a new neurological pathway because all I saw before was the negative.

Aaron Smith (35:34)
Mm.

Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (35:50)
and

we train our brain to see the negative in our spouse. I I saw all the things he was doing wrong. And so I’m asking God, God show me all the things Dave is doing right and well, and then help me to say it. And some people aren’t as verbal, but they could text it or write it or in some way communicate it. And I had no idea that those things would bring Dave such joy, such power, like that’s powerful.

Aaron Smith (36:05)
Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (36:18)
I’m so convicted now because I’m realizing, man, I was using this God given power and influence in my marriage and my family in a negative way. And God’s like, no, see the greatness in him. And obviously it goes both ways. Of course. How to speak life to your wife. Same thing. It’s just our journey. One time we… Go ahead.

Aaron Smith (36:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, there’s a good

I was just going to say there’s a ⁓ really powerful spiritual principle here that God I mean, God created us. He knows how we work. And there’s a reason like you look at I just always think of these big stories in the Bible that are just so famous and you draw so much truth from them. The Israelites being there are the Hebrews before the Israelites, but the Hebrew is being rescued out of Egypt. And all they knew was slavery. All they knew was, you know, control and under the thumb of Pharaoh.

Dave/Ann (36:45)
Yes.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (37:06)
They come out into the wilderness and God just saved them in by ten plagues, know Pass them through the Red Sea. He’s feeding them with a manna and then they think about the what they look at the one thing they don’t have we’re thirsty or we’re hungry and and they forget immediately everything that God already did they’ve had all of this miraculous amazing things and they look and God’s like Do you not remember what I’ve done for you? Do you have you forgotten so quickly where I’ve brought you and?

Dave/Ann (37:20)
Yeah. Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (37:34)
And that’s our nature is to look at that negative, look at what’s right in front of us is not good enough rather than recognizing what is good. And but when you do that, it’s why over and over and over again throughout scripture, we’re told to remember what God has done. you know, remember the good things and also to look to things that are above and that are pure and of good repute. And because, like you said, God knows how our brains work and it’s going to change the way we see Him, see other people, see ourselves.

Dave/Ann (37:36)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (38:04)
And so it’s so true that just neurologically, spiritually, physically, when you think of good things about your husband, you have good hormones that come out of your brain, good chemicals that God gave you. That feels so much better than the…

Dave/Ann (38:08)
Yes.

Yes, yes. And it goes along

with Romans 12 too, doesn’t it? Don’t be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of our minds. And man, he does it. He really does that.

Aaron Smith (38:19)
Yeah, yeah, be transformed with the renewing.

But the other

part that I think is really powerful is not that, not just that the thinking different changes you, because it does, but the whole point of your book is the moment you start saying different things, it changes him. It’s amazing.

Dave/Ann (38:41)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.

And you’re not doing that to manipulate necessarily. But but it does. Yeah. And you know, as you already heard, that was just the beginning. It has transformed our marriage. mean, without a doubt, the biggest cheerleader in my life by a million is this woman right here. She was the booer. Now she’s the cheer. I’m not kidding. She I mean, she believes in me as a man, as a husband, as a spiritual leader, as a pastor, you name it. And again.

Aaron Smith (38:46)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (39:11)
And we try to balance this in the book. That does not mean that you don’t speak hard truths to your husband or your spouse when they need to hear it. And we also had to balance almost every two or three pages and say, Hey, by the way, we aren’t saying if you’re an abusive relationship, if you’ve got a jerk for a husband who’s treating you poorly, ⁓ just cheer him. No, no, no, no. You got to get safe and you got to, you know, so there’s always that balance because people can take that and say, I’m supposed to speak to life to this guy.

Aaron Smith (39:17)
And love you.

Dave/Ann (39:39)
You understand this guy. He’s not a goodwill man like your husband who was just blowing it. He’s sort of a bad man. So we got, you we got to balance that.

Aaron Smith (39:45)
In those situations,

always remind people the most loving thing you can do in a situation like that is professional help. You love them, then go get help.

Dave/Ann (39:51)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Because they’re not going to change until that happens. And you don’t have any guarantees. There was this one night, Dave had been on the sidelines with the Detroit Lions. He had preached like four times. He was so tired and he got into bed. And as he’s getting into bed on a Sunday night, he says to me, man, he’s just saying it out loud. Man, I’ve been getting all these critiques of my sermons lately. Now,

I’m a verbal processor. And so in my life, as I’ve been like trying to train my brain and trying to figure out how to speak life to Dave, I felt like God was saying to ask him a few questions before I answer things because I’m a verbal processor. So I’m asking- You were gonna say- I was going to say to him after he said, I’m getting these critiques. And I almost said, this is what came to my head. If you would just study more and be in the word more, your sermons would be way better.

Aaron Smith (40:35)
Mm.

⁓ man.

Dave/Ann (40:50)
I almost said that thinking it would be really helpful. So now God was asking me to do this. First ask him, God, should I say it? And I heard, so I did that quick prayer. God, should I say it? No. And then the prayer is, should I say anything? And if I should, what should I say? And is now the time. So then that was my prayer. Lord, should I say anything? And so this thought popped into my head and I kind of analyzed it just for a few seconds. And so this is the thought that popped into my head. Man.

Aaron Smith (41:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Dave/Ann (41:20)
I can’t imagine what it’s like to be you. You have thousands of people dependent on your walk with God. What a heavy thing that must be to carry every single day. And then there is just silence. And then he grabs me and he pulls me over and he hugs me and he whispers in my ear, you are my life. Now, what if I was saying, if you just tell me more and get in the word more, you know what I mean? Like that was such.

Aaron Smith (41:46)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (41:48)
As that was the beginning of my journey, it was God saying like, Ann, the power is what you see in Dave. When you see the greatness and you say it, and it’s not like you’re not gonna speak truth at times, but when I can fill Dave up with who he is and who God says he is and what I see in him, then when I come with him, to him with a hard truth, in a way that’s wrapped in love, speak the truth in love, he can hear it and he just doesn’t tune me out or ignore me. That’s kind of what was.

probably going on before. Yeah. And you know, when, when she said that that night, I didn’t think, I’m going to grab her right now and hold her and say, you are my life. just did. And if something you said earlier, Erin, you know, our wives has such power and you know, Jennifer same way for you. When Ann says something positive, here’s what I know. If somebody at our church comes up and says, Hey, you’re amazing. Blah, blah. I don’t know them. I smile and say, thank you, but they don’t know me.

And inside I’m thinking, yeah, if you knew me, you wouldn’t be saying it. I, you know, I’m around pro athletes and that happens all the time. Fans come up and they get in the car with me and they’re like, yeah, they think I’m amazing. They don’t know how I yelled yesterday. But when your wife or your spouse who knows everything sees all the good and all the ugly says you’re a good man. That’s why I responded like you are my life. It’s like, you know, and you still love me. It’s the gospel. It is the gospel. You, you see all the dirt and you love me and you think I’m a good man.

Aaron Smith (42:59)
Yeah.

Thanks.

Dave/Ann (43:16)
That’s power. And really the sub theme of Anne’s whole book is women. God gave you power and influence. Ezra Canegdo, she had a whole chapter on what does a helper suitable mean in Genesis. It is powerful what God’s given you to be a warrior with your man. And you can use that power to build up or tear down with your husband or anybody. Man, you use it the way God wants you to use it. You’re married. Your man is going to come alive.

Aaron Smith (43:23)
Yep.

Help me, you know?

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (43:44)
We were in the lunch table after doing some recordings and all these people were in the room and all of them had theology degrees, some of them theology doctorates. And we were talking about Ephesians 2.18 where it says, made the woman to be a helper suitable, which used to grind me like, why do I have to be the helper? know, where’s my helper? So we were talking about all of that and what it really meant in the Hebrew and the original language.

Aaron Smith (44:03)
Yeah, I bet.

Dave/Ann (44:09)
And what was the doctor’s? You can’t get this right. can’t remember his name. never remembers. Jeff Myers. So it was so interesting because he loves Hebrew. So he studies it and knows it so well. And he said, you know what? I think it means you guys, because the word helper is kinetgo, which is helper. But the word kinetgo, which is the word suitable in English, is kinetgo in Hebrew. It means standing toe to toe. It’s never used any other time in the Bible.

Aaron Smith (44:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dave/Ann (44:39)
But he said, I think when a woman stands toe to toe and her man looks at her into her eyes, he sees the man that he can become. And I was like, whoa, that’s powerful. And the thought that first came to my mind was who does Dave see when he looks in my eyes? Does he see like loser, incompetent? I used to. Yeah. Or does he see like

Aaron Smith (44:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (45:07)
the man of God that I see that he is. And when we have sons too, we as women and with our daughters saying like, man, what we speak to them and see in them, that plays a big role because it’s so easy, especially as our kids are, training them, we’re teaching them, they’re discipling them. Sometimes it’s easy to be training them so much. We’re not saying, this is who you are. This is what I see in you. Those are powerful words.

Aaron Smith (45:24)
Yeah.

And it’s amazing when you realize that power to wield it rightly. Because I think, I would imagine, we’re married and we love each other. so there’s this kind of foundational thought of, well, I should be able to say something because they know I love them. And I’m going to say this thing. yes, I’m frustrated, I’m bothered, not realizing that we’re not having control over our tongue.

Dave/Ann (45:40)
Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Smith (46:02)
And this goes, this is for husbands and wives. And we think wrongly, like they should be able to handle this when we ourselves wouldn’t want it. And so like that whole golden rule that the Bible talks about to do under others is we’d have them do to us. And but what we think is like, I’m going to do to them what I want to do to them, but I want them to treat me differently. And that you brought up Genesis and you brought the, you know, Adam and Eve, and we get this picture right away of the influence that Eve had on Adam.

Dave/Ann (46:05)
both.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm hmm. Yes. Right.

Aaron Smith (46:31)
You know, and that was in a wrong way.

But when it comes to our marriage, the thing I’m hearing from you, the power that you’re showing on your side, Anne, but ⁓ Dave, this is a two-way street always. And the most powerful marriages are when both are doing this, right? It could be effective with one being obedient and walking, and then I just want to encourage the marriages out there that feel like it’s a one-sided street. It’s never wrong to obey God. It’s never wrong to trust Him and follow Him. It’s so good.

Dave/Ann (46:45)
Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. Right.

Aaron Smith (47:01)
and to see him work in your spouse, but.

Dave/Ann (47:03)
And if we wait, we shouldn’t wait for our feelings to be there. Like you’re going to say these things and see these things and say them as an act of obedience and a humbleness and a worship to God. Like, Lord, he may not deserve it, but you’re asking God, like, if you feel like he doesn’t deserve it, do it unto the father. So it’s really, I mean, because I’ve had women come up to me and say, there’s nothing great. There’s nothing even good enough to cheer. I see nothing good in him. And I said,

Aaron Smith (47:07)
Yeah.

and

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (47:33)
But God does. He sees something in him as a created person, as a person created by God, that there’s something good. So ask God to show you, because there’s something in there that he sees.

Aaron Smith (47:39)
Yeah.

Amen.

Yeah, the point I was trying to make is this idea that so not only are you speaking words of life that’s lifting him up, but when we do the opposite, I think of that scripture that tells us to not cause a brother to stumble, to not put stumbling blocks before another believer. And we could do that. We can, with our words, to our spouse. There’s so many ways that we could, you know, if I’m coming to my wife in a heavy, critical way,

Dave/Ann (47:59)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Totally.

Aaron Smith (48:15)
I could be causing her to stumble in her mind and thinking wrong things and lies and agreeing with the devil and his lies that he’s probably preaching to her. And I think of ⁓ Peter coming to Jesus and saying, no, surely Lord, you’re not going to go and die. And Jesus turns to him and says, get thee behind me, Satan. what he’s doing is saying, your words, those are the devil’s words. Those are not from God. And we can…

Dave/Ann (48:18)
Mmm.

Mm.

That’s good.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. Right. ⁓

Aaron Smith (48:42)
do both like, you know, Proverbs 18 21 death and life are in the power of tongue and those who love it will eat its fruit. So what fruit do we want? What fruit do we want from our spouse? And are we going to speak life? So we get life giving fruit. Are we going to speak death and then just get death fruit from it? And we’re like, why is all this fruit stink? Why is all this fruit rotten? What’s going on? Like Dave said earlier, he’s like, was it working? No, it wasn’t. But, definitely sounds easier verbal, like to say it. So what are some practical

Dave/Ann (48:49)
Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Hahaha. ⁓

⁓ Yeah.

Aaron Smith (49:12)
steps that a husband and wife, know the book is focused on the wife, but for sure, this is a bold thing. What are some practical steps for the believer to start doing this?

Dave/Ann (49:16)
Yeah, it’s both ways. Yeah.

I mean, one of the things I’ve done is I’ve copied Ephesians 4.29 and put it places that I need to remember it, which says, no corrupt talk come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear. our only, only, isn’t that convicting? Yeah. So it makes you, it makes you stop and ponder it. And honestly, I share this in the book, but

Aaron Smith (49:33)
Yeah.

Only what is good. Yeah. Oops.

Dave/Ann (49:52)
I have to be in the word. I have to be in the word of God. It reminds me who God is. It reminds me who I am. And when I’m not in the word of God, it takes my eyes away. And so I would say being in the word, having some good friends for me of accountability. So many of my girlfriends have gone through the same kind of Tell them to do what Michelle does. Yeah. I have one friend, she was like…

struggling with her husband. He traveled all week, every week, and she’s had, she’s home alone with the kids. So we started talking about, let’s, what are the good things that he’s doing? And she’s not a words person. It doesn’t come as easy. So she started a journal. She asked God to show her like, are the good things my husband’s doing? So she did a journal just once in a while. She just jotted in just simple things. Hey, thanks for making it for the soccer game. It meant so much to Macy. Hey, thanks for putting the little Christmas lights up outside when I know you hate it.

but you did in any way for me. So she hands him this journal on his birthday. He sits in the chair, cries the entire time. Cry like, he said, these are our best friends. And when we said like, Rob, what made you cry? And he said like, what she said, I feel like I’m failing all the time. But her words made me see like, this is the man I could become. And she sees in me like, I want to be better.

Aaron Smith (50:45)
That’s me.

Dave/Ann (51:14)
than what I am. And it was so motivating. He said it just motivated me to want to be better. And I think that’s a really good illustration of just practical text. Send him a text, know, easy things. Start simple. Start with thank you. I mean, honestly, if somebody gets this book, some wife just did that. Hey, I’m going to start a journal. I could start an easy journal of all things I.

Aaron Smith (51:14)
Yeah.

and

Dave/Ann (51:38)
don’t like and you don’t do. I’m going to start a different kind of journal. I’m just start writing down when I have a thought, a positive, and I’m just, not going to forget it. I’m to put it in there and it changes your brain and hand it to your man once a year. I bet I’ll bet you he’s going to be crying. just, those kinds of words impact our soul. That’s why God said the, you know, life and death is in the power of your tongue. They are those words matter and go.

Aaron Smith (51:40)
Yeah.

There we go, here’s a yeah.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (52:06)
Go through

Aaron Smith (52:06)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (52:07)
it with some other people. And my favorite part, Erin, is Dave writing at the end of each chapter. I feel like it’s so helpful for a woman to see, this is what our guys feel. That’s really, I think that’s helpful.

Aaron Smith (52:18)
Yeah.

Yeah. And Dave, believe that most husbands have, hopefully not all husbands, but have felt the way you feel. I know I have. What is a, what’s a loving way? This is a dangerous question by the way. What’s a loving way that a husband could, I would imagine, of course, like the practical steps, don’t do this in the heat of the moment, but like,

Dave/Ann (52:29)
Yeah.

Right.

Aaron Smith (52:48)
How

can a husband say hey, like not on stage in front of all the moms? Maybe that’s how it has to happen, but coming and like holding your wife’s like what’s something that a husband can do to say, hey, I need this, I need more of this.

Dave/Ann (52:51)
I was gonna say, do it on stage. It’s so much easier. No, no, that’s a good question.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that is for husbands or wives, for any one of us, one of the hardest things to do in life is tell your really good friend or your spouse, here’s how you’re hurting me or what you said or did really hurt me. ⁓ It’s much easier to just keep it inside. That’s not good. That’s bad. It’s going to come out in some other way. So I think it’s having, first of all, it’s courageous to say it. Yes.

Aaron Smith (53:20)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (53:33)
And if you’re in a marriage that’s sort of volatile, it’s probably not going to go well. you know, even our 10 year anniversary that we talked about at the beginning, normally I got defensive and it ended up in a fight. That was a unique response that night when God’s like repent.

And so I think obviously you have to pick the right time. can’t be right when you walk in the door. got to pick the right time. You got to say it with tenderness, even though it may really hurt. And you want to say it with a little more force. Maybe write it. Maybe it could be a letter you hand and say, I’d like you to read this and then let’s talk, ⁓ giving her or him some time to process before you actually have the conversation. If you’re really volatile, maybe you need a third party in the room with you. ⁓

Aaron Smith (54:04)
Yeah, letter. I was thinking about a letter. Yeah.

Dave/Ann (54:18)
a trained Christian do you mean by volatile? That sounds like abusive. No, mean just that you’re going to explode and you’re going to yell and you’re going to get defensive. Hopefully not hit her, but you’re going to say things you’re going to regret later. And sometimes

Aaron Smith (54:26)
Yeah.

Dave/Ann (54:31)
just a third party to just be able to go, hey, Dave, I don’t think you heard her. Ann, say it again. I don’t think you understand what she’s trying to say. And again, it can’t be her best friend or your best friend, because they’re going to, know, tend one’s life. So it’s a third party that’s got a really good listening ear to say, I’m here to help. I think it would have been great. would have I’m pretty I blow up quickly, but back in the day I did. I think if Dave would have come to me and said, Ann, I feel like

Aaron Smith (54:37)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dave/Ann (55:00)
your words, if he would have just said, your words are crushing me. And if he would have said, man, it feels like I’m failing all the time. It feels like you don’t like me. I probably would have said, you’re right. I don’t like you a lot of times, but I love you. But, but I think, but if he would have said that your words are crushing me and it makes me feel like I can’t do anything right. And then, and if he would have said, but I don’t want you to respond right away. I’m going to share this. It’s hard for me to share with you.

But I don’t want you to just run right away. Let’s just take a little time after. I wouldn’t need that to sort through my thoughts and not to react. And again, love to hear your thoughts, Erin, but I’d ⁓ add one last thing is wives read this. It could be a really interesting exercise to then go to her husband and say, Hey, do you feel like I build you up?

Aaron Smith (55:33)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Dave/Ann (55:49)
or tear

you down? And I know there’s going to be both. I have that question. The majority is what do you feel? I remember one time I was in a car with four of my best buddies. We’re going to a funeral of one of our guys’ dad. And on the drive, I was driving and I said, we had this rental car. I said, hey guys, I got a question for you. Do you feel like your wife loves you? And I think I had three or four guys in a car, married 10, 15, 20, 25 years. Every guy immediately, yeah. Why you ask? I go, well, let me ask you another question. Do you feel like your wife likes you?

Aaron Smith (56:18)
Nope.

Dave/Ann (56:19)
Every guy in the car, nope.

I was like, wow. And they’re like, why are you asking this? Because I said, I think this is common. Wait, so they don’t like him because why? Well, they were feeling what I felt. Like, she’s committed to me. We’re not getting divorced. She’s all in, but I feel like most of the day is critique. You’re not good enough this. don’t even load the dishwasher right, for God’s sake. You don’t change the diaper right. You’re not a very good spiritual leader.

Aaron Smith (56:31)
various reasons, yeah.

Dave/Ann (56:45)
It’s something that a lot of us felt. That’s one of the reasons why I think this is pretty common. Let’s write a book to help marriages that are struggling that way. I think it’s pretty common to most marriages. And it could go the other way. It could be the man that’s more critical of his wife, but often it feels like it’s this way.

Aaron Smith (56:57)
Yeah

Gosh, that’s really encouraging. just hope everyone gets this book, How to Speak Life to Your Husband. Dave, Ann, would you guys share where people could find you to listen to you more? Because this was super encouraging. I’m sure they’re going to want to hear more encouraging stories from you guys. 45 years, you got a lot of stories. So thank you.

Dave/Ann (57:15)
Hmm. Thanks, Aaron. And thanks for all you guys are doing to. Yeah, it’s awesome.

It’s really awesome. Yeah. Well, you know, we had you guys on. It’s called Family Life Today. It’s a radio syndicated thing, but it’s a podcast. So most people listen to it on their phone, just like they’re listening to Marriage After God. That’s and that’s 260 shows a year. So it’s a five day a week, 25, 30 shows a month. It’s a lot of a lot. And we have people like.

Aaron Smith (57:38)
That’s amazing.

Dave/Ann (57:43)
know, Smith’s on, have people that are experts and writers and authors in the marriage and family space. it’s awesome. We have an Instagram and a Facebook, just Dave and Wilson. ⁓ We’re not big. don’t, we don’t even have a website. We probably should. And, ⁓ we do. And you can pre-order the book on Amazon. comes out May 13th. So if you’re listening to this after that, you can get it on Amazon. Yeah.

Aaron Smith (57:57)
No, but you got God’s story, so that’s what’s going on.

Yeah,

I think this will go live probably right around there actually. yeah, everyone go pick up a copy of how to speak life to your husband. I think husbands should read this too, because it’s going to be probably eye opening because I’m sure a lot of husbands don’t maybe don’t even realize. I was thinking about, Dave, what you were talking about. For me, something might come up and I’ll feel a certain way in the moment and then life moves on and then it’s in the background. It’s gone. Not that it’s gone out of my heart.

Dave/Ann (58:12)
Great. Awesome. ⁓

for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes. Right.

Aaron Smith (58:37)
But it’s not like

an immediate like so I’m like, things are great. But really, there’s this this thing’s building up inside of us. So think many men are probably that way. I’m hoping I’m not the only one.

Dave/Ann (58:40)
Yeah.

And even if,

yeah, even if the man would just read Dave’s sections, just a couple of pages at the end, even if he would say to his wife, I relate to that, I get that, that could be even helpful. Or the wife reads that and goes to her husband and say, hey, Dave said this, do you feel that way? And he’s going to go, yep, that’s me. I’m trying to be the voice for every husband to say, here’s how your man feels.

Aaron Smith (58:56)
Yeah.

What you guys are saying is that this is going to be a ⁓ great conversation starter that start with prayer and then step in and be like, I want to talk about these things with you because I love you. let’s see if there’s some stuff that we can grow on. So Dave, and thank you so much for giving me your time. And I just pray that you’re a Jeff God audience just as incredibly blessed by this conversation. I was blessed. So thank you so much for coming on the show.

Dave/Ann (59:12)
Yes. Yes. Yeah. ⁓

Hmm.

You’re welcome.