Husband & Wife After God: 30-Week Devotional Series

Joby Martin (00:00)
When the, Paul carried along by the Holy spirit says act like men. Well, what does he mean? What does that mean?

According to the text

I want to be the man God has called me to be. What does that mean? And it doesn’t have to be a mystery. This isn’t, I mean, he just, he just lays it out. Be watchful. That’s like wake up, get up off the couch. Don’t be lazy. talks about that straight up. Stand firm and fighting words, act like men, be strong. You have to understand what biblical strength is. And then the real doozy of it all is and let everything you do be done in love. You get those things, right? You’re killing it.

Aaron Smith (00:32)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Marriage After God podcast where we dive into honest conversations that strengthen Christian marriages and families for God’s glory. I’m your host, Aaron Smith, and today I’m thrilled to share my chat with Pastor Jobi Martin, founder of the Church of 1122 in Jacksonville, Florida. Jobi, a 52-year-old dad of two, 20-year-old JP and 16-year-old Reagan, has been married to his amazing wife Gretchen for 25 years. He grew up in rural South Carolina, got radically saved in high school,

implanted his thriving church back in 2012, all while keeping Jesus at the center. We talked in this episode about his brand new book, Stand Firm and Act Like Men, inspired by 1 Corinthians 16, 13 through 14, and the cultural chaos around masculinity. Jobie shares powerful stories from his family like JP’s bold pivot from college to fire school, realizing true manhood is about serving, not consuming, and how biblical strength means humility, protection, and loving like Christ in marriage.

We explored rites of passage for boys, the need for older men mentoring the younger, and how submission to Jesus transforms husbands and dads. If you’re wrestling with what godly manhood looks like in your home, this episode will equip and encourage you. Let’s jump in.

Aaron Smith (01:45)
All right, Pastor Jobi Martin, welcome to the Marriage After God podcast.

Joby Martin (01:49)
Yeah man, thanks for having me.

Aaron Smith (01:51)
Yeah, I’m super honored that you’re giving me some time today. I’d love to start off. We’re going to talk about your book here. I mean, it’s a huge, huge issue currently in culture. It’s probably been an issue since Genesis. You talk about that in your book, but it’s just, I think it’s front and center with how visible it is right now. But before we get into all of that, I just would love for my audience to get to know you a bit more. I just would love to know who you are, your background, marriage, children.

Ministry just who’s Joby Martin?

Joby Martin (02:23)
Yeah, man, I’ll be 52 in a couple of days. I grew up in a very, very small town in rural South Carolina, close to mortal beach. And I would have, I thought I was a Christian cause I was Southern, you know, cause we all kind of think that all goes together. Like we believe in God, like we believe in the second amendment and SEC football. So we just kind of think it all goes together. got radically saved at a little Christian camp that I was attending later in high school that my football coach led.

Aaron Smith (02:41)
Yeah.

Joby Martin (02:54)
⁓ felt called to ministry in college, never in a million years thought I’d go into ministry. Met my wife, ⁓ at the first church. Well, I met her in the gym, but I was serving in Roanoke, Virginia. ⁓ we’ve been married now 25 years and, yeah, man, she’s the jam. No doubt about it. We have two kids, a 20 year old son named JP and a 16 year old daughter named Reagan Capri and.

Aaron Smith (03:09)
That’s awesome.

Joby Martin (03:22)
Planted a church in 2012 here in Jacksonville, Florida. And God’s just been really, really good to us, really good to us.

Aaron Smith (03:30)
Yeah, I’ve been just peeking around at what you’ve been doing and ⁓ real vocal on some uncertain topics. But mainly what I love about what you’re doing is your attention to pointing people back to just what’s the word of God say? Who is who is Christ? Who are we to him? And ⁓ that that’s something I really appreciate about what you’re doing. So even in what we’re going to be talking about, manhood, which is interesting. My next interview today is also going to be talking about just men. And it’s it’s so it’s such a ⁓

pervasive conversation that the I was just talking to gentleman last night an older gentleman he’s like 85 and He was just he was sharing that we did a little homeschool Meeting last night with all of our families and we do it every year. It’s really encouraging when we start the year off But he came and he’s like, you know I all of my you know friends and business partners and people in my life that were older than me I’ve grown up with have all passed away. He’s like, I just don’t know why I’m here still and

Not genuinely questioning it, like in a a jesting way, like, you know, God still got me here for a reason. And I just came up and I was like, hey, God’s got you here because we need older men like you. Like we’re in a deficit of of men who know who they are and know who Christ is and have a ⁓ desire in the heart. So I just appreciate your ministry in that. I also love Jacksonville, Florida. So congrats on being a really great place. My wife and I spent a year in Florida and

Joby Martin (04:33)
Mm-hmm.

Aaron Smith (04:55)
Right on the space coast. think it’s south of Jacksonville. at, yeah, the space state space center and all that. So yeah, floor is nice. We like to go visit there.

Joby Martin (05:03)
Amen.

Everybody needs Jesus might as well live at the beach. You know what mean?

Aaron Smith (05:07)
Might

as well. Yeah, people at the beach need Jesus too. More so now than ever probably. So Mary, 25 years, that’s no easy feat. What got you to 25 years, my friend? Because we all need this. We all need to know the secrets to 25 and then 50 and then on.

Joby Martin (05:11)
That’s true.

Yeah, there’s no secret, man. It’s just Jesus. mean, you know, in Ephesians five, before Paul gets to how husbands and wives are supposed to treat each other, there’s a banner over the next three sections of scripture that we call the household code. And that is that we should be submitted to one another out of reverence for Christ. And so, I mean, I’ve probably done, I don’t know, a thousand weddings or something. And whenever I sit down with a couple, I just tell them straight up, if you don’t know Jesus, I don’t know how to.

tell you to be married. mean, I’m not saying like it’s kind of a crap shoot. If you don’t know him, you know, maybe, maybe you’ll get lucky. Yeah. And you know, it kind of works out and you guys can figure it out. the biblical standard for marriage is that both the husband and wife are submitted to Christ first and foremost. And because you’ll never be able to submit to one another because they’re submitable to, but you have to understand that ultimately your marriage is a reflection of God’s love towards us.

Aaron Smith (06:01)
Might work,

Amen.

Joby Martin (06:25)
And that we are to reflect that. And when you get that right, man, it can be just the greatest thing in the world. When you get off on that, it can be one of the hardest things you’ll ever be a part of in your life. So that’s it.

Aaron Smith (06:36)
Well, and I would argue

that, like you said, people that don’t know Christ, when their marriages are working, it’s because they’re applying Christ-like principles without even knowing it. They’re still walking in the same things.

Joby Martin (06:45)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, especially Americans.

I mean, they are swimming in the world that the Bible built and then denying the water that they’re in. Yeah.

Aaron Smith (06:54)
yeah.

Yeah, like mutual respect, mutual honor, ⁓ sacrifice, all of these things. These are biblical concepts, not liberal concepts, not worldly concepts. So even when they’re working, they say, we can have a good marriage without Christ. you’re like, well, yeah, but you’re applying things that he taught us. You’re applying what the Bible says. You know, anytime there’s something that’s working in society, it’s because it’s working on his principles, not our own. And when we apply our own principles,

Joby Martin (07:06)
Correct.

Aaron Smith (07:24)
That’s when things start falling apart, even when we know Christ. So that happens. We get in our own ways. Our heads get big. two kids. You said 20 was your oldest and what’s your youngest? 16. So you still got, is he out of the house? Is he still in the house?

Joby Martin (07:32)
For sure. For sure.

20, 16, 16 year old girl, 20 year old boy.

Uh, yeah, he graduated high school a year and a half ago. Uh, he did one year at Florida state and came home and said that ain’t it. And, uh, he actually works at our church right now and he’s enrolled in fire school and he’s gonna.

Aaron Smith (08:01)
⁓ good for him. That’s so

Joby Martin (08:03)
Dude, I could not be more pumped. I mean, I couldn’t be more pumped. I’m so glad at a very early age he realized this ain’t it. Like he’s like, dad, good things were not happening for me in Tallahassee. That is not a good place for me to be. I don’t want to get a degree in something that I don’t even know what to do with it. So anyway, he came home and through a series of conversations just says, well, one, I can’t just sit in the air conditioned room and watch the NASDAQ all day. He was a finance major.

He’s like, I have to do something with my life and I want to help people. And, ⁓ when he was in high school, he was on his way to school one morning and Reagan, my daughter was in the passenger seat and he witnessed a pretty nasty car accident and jumped out of his car and ran to the accident and pulled two nurses out of the car. And, it was a, it was a real pivotal moment in his life, especially when I was asking him what happened.

And asking him who else was helping. He got really, really agitated because a big crowd of people showed up and everybody just had their phones. And he’s like, what the heck is wrong with people? So anyway, it’s kind of chicken and egg. I don’t know which one was first because that was already in there, but maybe it codified something was in there anyway. So, ⁓ yeah, he’s, he’s registered for fire school. couldn’t be more excited. ⁓ he currently works full time in operations at our church.

Aaron Smith (09:04)
their phones. ⁓

Yeah.

Joby Martin (09:28)
He gave me the best compliment you could get from your 20 year old son. I took him on a fishing trip with his granddad to Canada this summer. And he just walks up to me one night after the fire pit and he’s like, dad, thanks for raising me to be a grown man. And I was like, what makes you say that? And he goes, well, I was just my freshman year of school. It’s they’re all boys. They’re, just still acting like boys and that’s not how you raised me to act. And so, you know, that’s kind of.

Aaron Smith (09:36)
awesome.

Yeah.

Joby Martin (09:58)
That’s definitely a dad goal, you know.

Aaron Smith (10:00)
Dude, yeah, my oldest is gonna be a teenager this year. So my first teenager in the house. So I long for that. How much of his deciding, because he went into finance school, was going to finance school and then just realizes, oh, this is not me. And then all of a sudden gets this, I don’t believe in coincidences. God was orchestrating. Like he said, he was already in him. This thing takes place and he’s like, wait a minute.

This is what I want to do. ⁓ How much of what you’re saying of that, you know, manhood, him seeing all of these other college students who are in their minds, probably trying to become men. Like, I have to finish college. I got to get a career. Then I’ll be a man. And him seeing that, seeing the contrast in his own life and what his own desires are, how much of that do you believe played a role in maybe that mindset shift or ⁓ wanting to say, hey, this is not for me. I need a

figure something else out.

Joby Martin (11:01)
Yeah, there’s a lot that goes into it. ⁓ he’s heard me talk a lot, both publicly and privately about manhood is not about consumption. It’s about serving, you know, like you are strong, but your strength is not for you. So how much beer you drink or how big your truck is or how big your muscles are do not define your manhood, but you’ve been given strength to make yourself low to serve. So I think that that is how he’s grown up and he’s a tough kid for sure, but.

I think another thing that helped was Charles Martin, who’s my co-writer. People would call him a ghostwriter, but I just didn’t like that. So I just put his name on the book with me, you know, cause we do this thing together. ⁓ he has three grown sons and one time he just kind of casually said, my job as a dad is not to control my kid’s future, but just help them take the right next step in obedience to what Christ has called him. And bro, you want to talk about one of the hardest things to do with your teenage kids?

Aaron Smith (11:39)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Joby Martin (12:00)
Is not try to just manufacture the next right step in your eyes And to give them to freedom. I mean my son’s a believer. So I believe theologically the spirit of god lives in him, right? And I believe theologically that god loves I will I say theologically because you I mean I can write books on these things. It’s just practically in the moment. It’s hard to Align your actions and feelings with what you know to be true About your children. So anyway

Aaron Smith (12:11)
Absolutely. ⁓

Joby Martin (12:27)
And so we just kind of had to give him a little space and give him the freedom to figure these things out and point him way more towards what does it look like for you to be in alignment with what God’s will for your life is as opposed to what this world’s told you or what you think would make me happy in the moment. I mean, I got a bunch of degrees and uh, I would have

If you would have told me five years ago that me and Gretchen would be pumped that my kid just dropped out of college, I’d be like, who are you talking about? And again, we could not be more excited that he is pursuing one, a very, very honorable profession. The way, the why behind, yeah, needed like crazy. The why behind it is incredible. He says, I gotta spend my life helping people. I can’t just be sitting in a room, you know, making money.

Aaron Smith (12:58)
Yeah.

One that’s needed. Yeah.

Yeah.

Joby Martin (13:20)
All of these things are wonderful things. And so to see where he is with the Lord right now. ⁓ I mean, for instance, we, ⁓ we just did a seven week Bible study at our church on Tuesday mornings at 6 a.m. The only thing here was Bibles and black coffee. And about 1500 men showed up every Tuesday morning and yeah, there you go, but, and, ⁓ you know, he’s showing up, he’s leading sixth grade guys in their

Aaron Smith (13:39)
Sounds good. I copied.

Joby Martin (13:48)
here at our church and he was not a typical like youth group kid all in on the church thing. And just to see what God has done in his life in the past, really six months has been miraculous. And so to answer your question, a lot of that is, is I had to back off parent towards relationship instead of just like rule following and trust the spirit of God in him.

Aaron Smith (14:11)
Mm.

Joby Martin (14:14)
will do what the Bible says like in Philippians 1 6, I am confident of this, that he who began a good work and you will bring it to completion upon the day of Christ Jesus. So God was at work in my son. And so there’s a lot of parents that need to hear that.

Aaron Smith (14:28)
You’re absolutely right. It’s something I need to hear. It’s a proclivity. It’s natural. like want to… My son’s young. My kids are young. they’ll say, want to do this when you’re older. The first thing is like, you don’t want to do that. That’s a terrible idea. But I’m trying not to say those things because to be honest, it could be a good thing, this idea they have. And also, they’re young. Those ideas are going to change a thousand times. And like you said,

Joby Martin (14:42)
Right.

hard.

Whoa.

Yeah. You’re early, man. You’re early. There’s this, you’ve got a parent towards planned emancipation. Like the goal is that they leave you. Right. And the moment you begin to get around your head, wow, in five years, my child can do whatever they want, at least for a semester, they can get away with it. So you better be parenting towards relationship.

Aaron Smith (14:58)
Your son went, yeah, really.

Yep, it’s freedom. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Joby Martin (15:24)
As opposed to just rule following. Now, of course, when you got 13 year olds, you’re there’s all kinds of rules, of course, but the more freedom, because what you’re trying to do is train them to be able to be trusted with the kind of freedom that they’ve been given so that they can make wise decisions that don’t lead to a place of regret, but rewards, right? And so that’s it. And man, I mean, you know, there’s nothing harder. I can remember, I share this with the church all the time. A few years ago, I think JP was like a junior in high school.

He’d done something really dumb. I’m yelling at him in the kitchen. I mean, just yelling. I’m like, dude, do you, you have no idea how good you have it. You got parents that love you. You get to live indoors, eat hot food. Everything we do is for you. And then I said loud, if you would just do what I say, your whole life would go better. And I felt like God said, tell them again, dad. And I was like, if you would just do what I say, your life would go better. And then I was like, my God, God, you’re talking to me.

Aaron Smith (16:21)
Yeah.

Joby Martin (16:22)
I got a dad that loves me. He provides for me. And if I would just do what he tells me to do, everything would be awesome. And so, yeah. So, you know, I, I could not, well, like two weeks ago, we’re teaching, you mentioned the Bible. We just teach books of the Bible or, or big chunks of the Bible here. We’re just Bible people at our church. ⁓ and we’re teaching all the life of Elijah, right? And, ⁓ we have a Thursday night service that kicks off our weekend because we’ve got a growing church and we’re kind of out of room on Sundays.

Aaron Smith (16:26)
You left me so better.

Joby Martin (16:51)
My wife is standing next to me. My son is next to her with his hands in the air, worshiping, singing King of my heart. And then my daughter likes to be like in the center front row and she’s two hands up worshiping her face off. Place is packed. And I just thought, Lord, you can take me home. I mean, right now you could take me home. I have a wife that loves me, kids that love you. Everybody’s healthy. And even though our church might be the most blessed church on the planet right now.

It is a distant second to what God is doing in my family right now. It’s not even close. It’s not even close. If I had to choose, I’d give up all the ministry things in one second for my wife and children.

Aaron Smith (17:36)
This goes to your conversation you’ve been having with your book and just all the podcasts you’ve been on about manhood. That is one of the huge marks of a man is that you’ve seen the foundational responsibility is your wife and children and everything else stems from that. It’s something that I’m constantly sharing on here. It’s the whole point of marriage after God is like,

when you see your marriage this way, when you see your family this way, that is the foundation of ministry. That’s the foundation of doing anything. That’s why Paul tells Timothy, if you can’t manage your home, you can’t manage the household of God. Like, it starts within your own self, and then it trickles to your own spouse and then your children, and then it just continues to permeate from there. ⁓ Sometimes we get it backwards, though.

Joby Martin (18:26)
Well, Peter’s like,

bro, if you ain’t treating your wife right, you can quit talking to me. Like he’s speaking on behalf of God. I mean, think about that. I do. I think about that time. There are times this is not the right, like down at the core of it, this is not the right motivation, but there are definitely times in my marriage where I’m like, well, I better freaking do the right thing here because the last thing I need is God to shut his ear to me in regards to ministry and church. You know what I mean?

Aaron Smith (18:55)
I think that’s a really great motivation to be honest. Like sometimes we need it.

Joby Martin (18:57)
Well, but it, is,

it, is very, very motivating and, and humbling, you know, it’s, it’s, I can tell you being a family man is the most humbling thing to a guy that is successful in whatever his area of expertise is. Right. I mean, again, I plan to this church. goes real good. We have all these people show up every week. I say words, they write them down. If I told everybody to stand up and turn around, they probably would.

Aaron Smith (19:02)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Joby Martin (19:27)
and then trying to lead the three people up my house with my last name that all depend on me.

Aaron Smith (19:30)
Hmm.

Joby Martin (19:34)
But it’s the most humbling thing I’ve ever done in my life, you know?

Aaron Smith (19:41)
yeah. There’s been many times like you’re just talking about like maybe it’s wrong motivation, but like I’m sitting, I was, I was pastoring a small home church here for the last six years. And we just recently shut that down for various reasons, but still pursuing what God has for us. But many times like I’m like, I feel the Holy spirit saying, you’re going to go and teach this Sunday and you’re sitting here, you know, you know, talking to your wife like this, or, you know, having this anger in your heart or whatever it is. I’m like, ⁓

Joby Martin (20:03)
You

Aaron Smith (20:11)
Like I have to get this right right now. Like I’ve got to fix this. I’ve got to reconcile not just so I feel better about my, you know, outward ministry, but that I’m right. That I’m right before God. That I’m right before my spouse. Because the last thing I want is to, you know, have my children fall into the statistics with pastors and just, ⁓ dad’s one way in front of these people who like him and he’s another way with us.

And I absolutely did not want to do that. ⁓ Something that I just think is incredible in Malachi, the last book of the Old Testament, it’s one of God’s indictments to the priests is the way they were unfaithful to their wives. And in showing like this same unfaithfulness you have there, you’re unfaithful with me. And that faithfulness to our wives and our children, you can’t fake it. You can’t pretend because that only goes so far. And it’s

Joby Martin (20:54)
Mm-hmm.

Aaron Smith (21:07)
It becomes very, sometimes it takes longer, know, as Paul says, like some sins are, much more, you know, conspicuous. You’re not going to find out until much later. And then you see it you see this destruction in men. Just later on, they’ve been doing these great things over here and just let their, I wouldn’t say let, they, by, you know, acts and choices, just ruin their, their internal home ministry. And that’s just, that’s not my heart. My heart is that.

Joby Martin (21:14)
Mm-hmm.

Aaron Smith (21:35)
I and all of those listening that we we see our our homes as ministry like you said you’d leave all this other stuff in a heartbeat if it meant you know stepping back into your home if you needed to and that that’s exactly where we should be as men ⁓ I think that’s a ⁓ master let’s let’s talk about manhood ⁓ I love that you have a huge heart for it. I have a heart for it. ⁓ not I don’t speak on it as much but it’s it’s I feel like it all it all plays it all connected, you know being a husband being a good husband. You gotta be a man

Joby Martin (21:45)
100%.

Aaron Smith (22:05)
to be a good husband. got to like a real man, not a boy. It’s when I’m acting like a boy is when I’m messing things up in my marriage. It’s when I’m selfish, when I’m my priorities, my time. Those are very boyish things. So what is it that’s been recently? Because you’ve written a lot of books. What’s been going on in the world or in your church and your home that I could probably make some guesses, but what led you to write this book and what are you seeing in culture that

Joby Martin (22:05)
Of course.

Aaron Smith (22:34)
needs to be addressed.

Joby Martin (22:35)
Well, you know, by the time a book hooked to shelf, it’s probably been in process two years or something. And, uh, the, the second most downloaded requested sermon series that I’ve ever done is on this text from first Corinthians 16 to stand firm and act like men. And it, especially 2020, you know, the last five years, there has been an attack.

on the character and nature of God because an attack on gender is an attack on the character and nature of God. Like two genders is God’s idea, period. And so when you attack that, you’re attacking him. And it wasn’t just a random idea. It was to bear his image, male and female, right? And likeness. And so that’s when it began stirring in me. And so, you know, a part of it,

I mean, it’s incredible. Who would have thought five years ago there’d be entire documentaries just called What is a Woman? And people with multiple degrees just couldn’t answer the question.

Aaron Smith (23:37)
That

was an incredible documentary. My wife and I were like stunned. Laughing but like a sad laugh. Like this is crazy.

Joby Martin (23:44)
A Supreme

Court justice, when asked, what is a woman? The reply is, well, I’m not a biologist. How do you get to sit in the highest court in the land? And I mean, you know, like I, what a three year old can notice the difference between boys and girls, right? Like can pick out mom versus dads with 100 % accuracy unless somebody’s trying to fool them. Right?

Aaron Smith (23:54)
Mm.

Yep.

Joby Martin (24:12)
But so we’re talking about, we’re in Bizarro land now. I mean, just absolute Bizarro land. And so when it’s gone that wrong, you got to go all the way back to the foundation. Be like, okay, so what did God intend? Cause when I’m also a little bit of nervous about nervous in the right word, what I want to caution the church on, there’s this old Scottish proverb. love it so much for every mile of road, there’s two miles of ditch. And so on the one hand, you’ve got

men acting like boys, they’re just consumers. They abdicate all their responsibility. They talk about rights more than anything else. They never talk about responsibility. But then in the last couple of years, there’s like the return of the alpha male, right? I mean, Joe Rogan goes to church sometimes. I mean, this is great, we think, but then what can happen is then it just falls all the way over here. And we try to define manhood.

Aaron Smith (24:59)
Mm-hmm.

Joby Martin (25:04)
in all the external ways. Like it’s just a bunch of bald dudes with beards, which is awesome, beating their chest talking about I’m a man because I’m loud and I’m tough and all of that. And we’re like, Whoa, hold on. don’t know. The prescription for what it means to be a man is in God’s word and he’s the author of life. So he knows how best it works. And so, and quite honestly, man, there’s a lot of really great men books out there by really smart people.

Aaron Smith (25:24)
Yeah.

Joby Martin (25:32)
They have a lot of sociological, psychological kind of insight. This isn’t that book. All I do is walk through the scriptures. That’s what I’m a Bible guy. I’m a preacher. And so this isn’t like 10 rules to be a better guy. That’s not what this is. Okay. There’s lots of those things out there. And quite honestly, many of them are very helpful and very smart. That’s all fine. You know, this is just what, okay. When the, Paul carried along by the Holy spirit says act like men. Well, what does he mean? What does that mean?

Aaron Smith (25:42)
Good. That should be.

Joby Martin (26:02)
According to the text and so the way I see that text is act like men is like the hub of the middle of the wheel and then the Imperatives around it are how we are to do that and I also I mean obviously women can read it too I would highly encourage you if you know a man love a man raising a person you want to be a man or married to a man This may be helpful, but I’ve got the dudes in mind for sure to say all right, man. Just give me the goods so

I want to be the man God has called me to be. What does that mean? And it doesn’t have to be a mystery. This isn’t, I mean, he just, he just lays it out. Be watchful. That’s like wake up, get up off the couch. Don’t be lazy. Peter talks about that straight up. Stand firm and fighting words, act like men, be strong. You have to understand what biblical strength is. And then the real doozy of it all is and let everything you do be done in love. You get those things, right? You’re killing it. You are.

Aaron Smith (26:43)
Yeah.

Joby Martin (26:59)
in obedience with what the Bible says a man is.

Aaron Smith (27:04)
The problem with that is that doesn’t always feel like being a man. I grew up, I had one brother. I I saw my parents are still together. So I saw a decent example of, you know, a marriage, you know, working out that first generation Christians doing their best to raise me. But I remember specifically in my high post high school, probably senior year college.

You know, early twenties, specifically asking myself, I didn’t go to anyone and say, you know, how do I be a man? But because I’m not going to do that. It’s not very manly to do. But looking at people that I looked up to other quote unquote men that I thought were men. And I’m like, well, how do I be more like that? And it wasn’t what you’re talking about. It was more external aesthetics. It was it was things like, well, that guy dresses a certain way and he wears a belt and

And I should do that. And I’m being specific here. And it’s kind of weird. I’m kind of confessing on myself, telling myself, but I had no idea what being a man looks like and acts like sounds like. But that is a problem is because we tend to want to look at the outside. mean, God told this to who was it? Picking David. He says, know, Samuel. Yeah. Or I’m gonna mess it up.

Joby Martin (28:16)
Mm-hmm.

Aaron Smith (28:33)
Yeah, we look at the outside. Yeah, we look at the outside and that’s what I was looking at and that’s what I seeing. It didn’t make me any more of a man. It may have made me dress differently or the beard, whatever. And that’s all going to be dependent on the group you’re in, right? The group you’re around, you’re going to base it off of, as the scriptures say, we judge ourselves by ourselves. We compare ourselves against each other rather than, like you said, the Word of God.

Joby Martin (28:33)
God looks at the man looks at the outside and God looks at the heart. Yeah, Samuel when he was about to anoint David. ⁓

Aaron Smith (29:03)
above anything else. And it’s taken me until my 40s. And now I’m seeing, I’m like, ⁓ like being a man’s doing the right thing, even when it’s hard. being a man is not being lazy and working hard and having integrity. And what kind of person am I behind closed doors? Like it almost has nothing to do with what people see. But…

Joby Martin (29:27)
Well, the whole beginning

of the book is just simply that. ⁓ we’re kind of answering the question. What does a man, how does one become a man? mean, we are the first for the first time in human history. We’re like the only culture that does not have rights of passage from boys to men. And I mean, this is kind of amazing. I was with the Messiah tribe in, in, ⁓ in Kenya back in the light in the late 19 hundreds when I was in seminary and they asked me.

Aaron Smith (29:44)
Yep.

Joby Martin (29:57)
Um, cause I was the only one of the seminarians they would allow into the village. Cause they perceived me to be a warrior and you know, nobody else was. mean, I don’t know if you’ve met a seminary. Yeah. And so anyway, and they asked me, so in your culture, when the boys become men and I’m like, I have no idea. And it takes, it takes men to bestow manhood upon them, generation. And since we don’t have that, we have exactly what you’re talking about. Oftentimes we have.

Aaron Smith (30:04)
Competition. Yeah.

Yeah.

Joby Martin (30:23)
boys trying to bestow manhood on other boys, but they typically just do it with consumerism. Like whatever, depending on where you’re from. I mean, you could tell by my accent where I’m from. So for us, it was how big are your tires? Can you fight all? And quite honestly, I, I fall into all of those generalities, dude. I hunt, I fish, I drive a Harley, I got tattoos, I fight MMA. all, all the stereotypes of

that stuff. And which I think it’s part of the reason God uses me to stand in front of a lot of people and write books to say, and none of that stuff makes me a man. It makes me awesome, but it does not make me a man. We also have men at our church and they’re not as loud as I am. Their voice isn’t as deep. They are way more into the arts and even fashion, these kinds of things. But they take responsibility.

for the world that God has given them stewardship over and they are willingly laying down their lives daily for the flourishing of other people. And these are the menliest men you’ve ever seen. And yet they’ve never gotten dirt under their fingernails or, you know, and their pleated khakis look great, whatever it is. So we’re trying to blow up the caricatures and just get us back to the scriptures. And…

Aaron Smith (31:45)
Well, I

feel like a lot of these that I would say like this cosplay of manhood, they it comes from like you mentioned a handful of things that it comes from someone who desires to be a man or is growing up into manhood, is going to do certain things, you know, be like kids finding out in the, you know, in the dirt in the backyard. That’s something kids do. then, but that’s something that boys, there’s an inheritance in them that’s going to

come out of them for protection and for being a warrior and for like things that are inherent to men. You know, I’m going to go to battle to, you know, against this wicked army for my God, you know. But we’ve turned all of the fruit of manhood into, like you said, caricature, a cosplay of manhood where like, if we just do these things over here, like I’m going to, I do Jiu-Jitsu, my kids do and we love it, but I do that. Therefore that’s manly because I can

Joby Martin (32:22)
correct.

Aaron Smith (32:44)
I can now fight and grapple or I, you you talk about big cars and I have a big truck too, but I don’t see those things as manhood, but I do see them as quote unquote manly, you know, the image. But we’ve, we’ve, we’ve. Yeah.

Joby Martin (33:00)
Yeah. Yeah. J- generalities are generally true. I mean, that’s how they become generalities, right? Yeah.

But, and that’s the key. You just can’t stop there. You just kind of like, so why? Why Jujitsu? Well, there’s a- I do it too. ⁓ but there’s a bunch of reasons. Of course I want to be able to protect my people. You know, I think that’s cool. I also want to live for a long time and I want to be a little flexible.

Aaron Smith (33:17)
Thank

What

Joby Martin (33:21)
And I don’t want the

Aaron Smith (33:21)
was that?

Joby Martin (33:22)
old man to come in. I don’t want to be the guy in my seventies making excuses. You know, I want to be one of those guys that can play with his grandkids. These are very, very godly, mainly pursuits. so jujitsu for me is just a, an avenue towards me glorifying God with my one and only life, heart, soul, mind and strength. And so if you’ve got the dial

Aaron Smith (33:26)
Mm-hmm.

Joby Martin (33:46)
Way too up in one of those areas and you’ve neglected another then you’re not being a godly man that he’s called you to be You know, like if you haven’t read a book since the Reagan administration then bro You’re not being the kind of man God has called you to be like we’ve got to love the Lord our God with our heart soul mind and strength that means relationally spiritually mentally and physically all of those things have to matter or You may be an expert in the scriptures, but lay on your couch every day and don’t go to work

Well, then you’re not being a godly man. I don’t care how many Bible verses you have memorized. Maybe you should memorize where Paul tells Timothy, if you don’t take care of your own family, you’re worse than an unbeliever. What does that even mean? Unbelievers go to hell. And so there’s a basement of hell, bro. mean, so, you know, it is interesting that Jesus says the Shema is the greatest of all the commandments, which is this whole lit, like you got one and only life. And when you see God for who he really is, Shema Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, or echad.

Aaron Smith (34:28)
Yeah, it’s worse than that, yeah.

Joby Martin (34:47)
then the normative response is, right, then I’m gonna love you all the way with my one and only life, heart, soul, mind and strength. And then what would really blow your mind is there’s only one verse about Jesus from 12 to 30, Luke 2.52, just says that’s what he did. He grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man. Think about that. All he was doing from 12 to 30 was turning into a man. He was loving God.

Aaron Smith (35:07)
Yeah

Yeah, not starting a ministry, not

Joby Martin (35:16)
Yeah, that’s it.

Aaron Smith (35:17)
starting a… I mean, he was working, probably working the business with his father, stepfather or whatever. But yeah, growing into manhood. You know, I had a podcast a few months ago with a man and we got into this whole conversation of rites of passage and how we don’t have a rite of passage. There is no, you’re now a man and you’re going to be seen as a man. And so if you start acting like a boy,

Joby Martin (35:21)
Of course.

Aaron Smith (35:43)
All the men are going to look at you and be like, what are you doing? Why are you acting like that? That’s not how we act as men. We don’t go. And I’ve dealt with, I should say dealt with, I’ve engaged with a lot of believers, men, who they, the moment you start encouraging them in manly things, I’m using manly in the sense of what we’re talking about, true manhood, like responsibility, integrity.

Joby Martin (35:51)
then

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Smith (36:12)
It confounds them and they take it offensively because they’re like, no, like I’m what I’m doing is fine. There was a gentleman I knew who got fired from his job. I’m like, okay, I mean that happens. And we’re saying, we’re like, what are you doing to, you know, he’s got kids, he’s got a wife. What are you doing to get a job? He’s like, he’s like, man, you know, I applied to three places today. I’m like, you had how many hours today to like.

three places. So just encourage him like, should be using this time off as your career. Your career now is looking for a job. He just wasn’t having that.

Joby Martin (36:48)
Right. And in the meantime,

run door dash or something to make some money. mean, listen in Ephesians, in Ephesians five, the, the basement level definition of love of a man towards a woman is provision and protect protection. Now, and again, that’s the basic, like you can’t, too many men stop there. I mean, a possum provides that for his family. So you got to, you might want to raise the bar a little bit, but if you don’t do those things, I don’t care how many love notes you write or you were not loving her. Cause you’ve got to.

Aaron Smith (36:53)
Do something.

Base level.

Yeah, do not. That’s enough. Yeah.

Yeah.

Joby Martin (37:18)
provide and protect. So yeah, I do think, ⁓ you know, I think some people will read some manhood book and they will have an elaborate like rite of passage for their 13 year old. And it’s cool, man. It’s cool. But you give them like, whatever, a plaque and tell them they’re, they’re not a man. You, and then you still treat them like a boy and their mom makes them clean their room. Like what I would encourage, I don’t have this figured out. I am far from like the best dad ever or whatever.

Aaron Smith (37:30)
Mm.

Yep.

Joby Martin (37:46)
We started those things when JP was a freshman in high school. And I will continue like an annual trip where there’s adventure. There’s the presentation of a thing that a value, it kind of went from knives to guns to, know, kind of just keeps escalating. ⁓ and there’s always an element of older men speaking life into him. Those are, those are the things that have to be there. And I’m not going to end until.

Aaron Smith (37:56)
Mm-hmm.

Joby Martin (38:16)
Probably he like graduates fire school and gets a job. And then I’m going to give him something of real significance, but he doesn’t have this one moment. He’s got, it’ll be seven years of moments. ⁓ and so I began that when he began high school. So, you know, that’s about when puberty hits ish and, and, ⁓ and then we’ve just been building on them and building on them and building on them. And so.

Aaron Smith (38:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, I’ve

been, I’ve been trying to do, ⁓ friends of mine invited me on a fishing trip for four years ago. And I took one, I took my oldest son on it down the John Day river. It’s like four or five days camping on the, know, floating all day, fishing, camping. And now I’m like every year. So the year after that, I took my other son and then the year after that, this last year, I think it’s not three times. I took all three of my boys.

Joby Martin (39:03)
every year.

Aaron Smith (39:11)
to trying to do something just like that, adventurous, they’re shooting pelicans, we’re looking for lizards, fishing, all the things. But ⁓ I think you’re right. I don’t think it’s just a here’s the moment, here’s your plaque. I think it is a, and I would imagine, I always look back to the Jewish culture and the Hebrew culture through the Old Testament. They wouldn’t have done that. It was, you’re out working with dad, you’re doing what dad does.

Joby Martin (39:39)
Right.

Right.

Aaron Smith (39:40)
And then there’s a point at which you’re going to be seen by not just dad, not just mom, not just siblings, but all of your community as a man. you, as Paul says, like we, I, we, I put childish things aside and now I think like a man, you know, I used to think like a child and now I think like a man. And so there’s gotta be that, that shift. There’s going to be a moment of like, that I’m sure you did this. I’m no longer looking at you as you, a child, I’m looking at you as a man. I’m going to speak to you as a man.

Joby Martin (39:57)
Mm-hmm.

Aaron Smith (40:10)
not as a boy and I’m going to expect things of you as a man. ⁓ Which is awesome because then you get this feedback also of where when you I would imagine it’s hard to for you as a father to transition to that. haven’t gotten there yet like to no longer treating him like a boy but treating him like a man. I’m sure you slipped back into you know that scenario where he gets to get feedback as a man and be like hey I love you thank you for

Joby Martin (40:30)
Mm-hmm.

For sure.

Aaron Smith (40:40)
what you’re trying to say to me, but it feels like you’re treating me like a boy. Would you communicate to me as a man? I would imagine that’s a big, big deal, but I love the idea of it’s a season of communicating. You are on the precipice of being a man. I’m going to be seeing that way. Let’s start working that direction. Here’s, here’s mementos or here’s, you know, experiences to point you in that direction. That that’s where we’re going. I love that idea.

Joby Martin (40:49)
Thank

Yeah, my biggest encouragement is catch them when they’re doing it right and praise the heck out of it. That goes way further than busting them when they get it wrong.

Aaron Smith (41:11)
Hmm, I mean that.

Yeah,

that just kicked me in the butt. just want you to know.

Joby Martin (41:20)
Dude, me too. mean, the only reason, you

know, the only reason I’m not a hypocrite in my preaching is because I just confess it from the beginning. I’m like, all right, church, I suck at this, but let me just, but what am going to do? Not teach the things I don’t have a black belt in. I can’t, I would, I’d be out of, I’d be out of material in two weeks in every year, you know, I’m like, I am a work in progress. And so, but when you catch your kids, you know, acting grown, didn’t tell them that’s it, dude. That’s it. Way to go. Cause

Aaron Smith (41:31)
Yeah.

Right.

Joby Martin (41:50)
Men are like, I mean, young men and old men, we are like puppies. We will, we will repeat what is rewarded. And the more you can reward it and there’s nothing greater than the, than the approval of a dad. Our words just weigh 10 million pounds. They just do. And so when they get it right, and especially another thing I tried, JP is an athlete. played baseball and football and

Aaron Smith (41:57)
Yeah.

you

Joby Martin (42:16)
He was really good and got a lot of accolades and stuff. And I, I always tried to reward with my words, not so much performance, but just attitude and effort, you know? And that’s, that’s hard to do. Like if he pitched a no hitter, I didn’t just, I didn’t want to get him ice cream that time, but not get him ice cream if he gave up three home runs, if he was trying just as hard in both events, you know?

Aaron Smith (42:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, and

the other team just might have been better. ⁓

Joby Martin (42:42)
Yeah, yeah, especially in baseball. That’s crazy. But

and it was amazing how he leaned into that though, you know, so we rewarded attitude and effort like on that fishing trip, man. I’m just telling you he was 19 and the next youngest guy was 37. There was 10 guys from our church. The oldest guy was my dad was 76. But man, when it got time to to make the shore lunch we had to unload. He out hustled everybody. He never complained. He just didn’t act like a boy. You act like a grown man.

And I really saw that, ⁓ even when he came home from college and he’s like, well, I’ve enrolled in fire school, as it doesn’t start till January, I’m like, well, cool. You don’t just get to sit at my house for eight months, like living your best life. You know, you got to do something. So that juggler just came and applied for a job at our church and got a full-time job in operations, making like 50 grand a year. He’s 19. He works every day. Like he shows up, he’s on the roof right now. We’re like looking at the air conditions, like, but he just, he’s at work.

He’s doing the thing. And so, I mean, I go to staff meeting, I’m leading it and there’s my son out there in the corner of my eye with a staff badge on like at our staff meetings. so, you know, all of these things I want to reward, which means I give him more and more and more latitude. And he’s still gonna make some dumb 20 year old decisions about what to do with your first paycheck, you know? But me preventing him from skinning his knee.

Aaron Smith (43:44)
That’s it.

Yep.

Joby Martin (44:11)
That never turns into a grown man. That turns into a wimpy old boy. That’s what that turns into. And then one of the hardest things in the world is to let your kids, whether they’re five or 20, make some mistakes and skin their knee, you know? And then speaking of marriage, what makes your wife probably an amazing mom of littles is like a freaking

Aaron Smith (44:28)
and

man. Yep.

Joby Martin (44:42)
it’ll kill a teenage boy. And it’s so hard because she’s actually reflecting a part of the character and nature of God to care and nurture. a big, and then dad’s got to come and rescue him from that sometimes for everybody’s sake so they don’t hate each other.

Aaron Smith (44:44)
Mm-hmm.

I heard that somewhere.

I’ve heard that somewhere. That’s who it was.

Joby Martin (45:01)
Eldridge is the first place I saw it.

Yeah. So in Kenya, in Kenya and the Messiah tribe, the, the warriors, the men, they literally between about a 13 and a 16 year old, they steal the young boys away and take them into the bush for the, for the rite of passage. And they literally drag teenage boys out of the arms of the mom. And when the boy, yeah. they’re like, nah, these, they gotta come with us.

Aaron Smith (45:19)
Yeah.

they were going to try and stop him. they’re like, nope, they’re going to be, we need these men in the tribe.

The Messiah, when I was, my wife and I were in Africa for ⁓ four months and there was a, one of the translators was a Messiah warrior. And I would have been accepted. got the, had, back then I had the plugs in my ears. They were all, they thought that was amazing. But yeah, the, the, the manhood culture, we have a cosplay. We have a, we have a fake manhood culture that’s happening right now with all the

Joby Martin (45:40)
Let’s go.

you

Aaron Smith (45:53)
Like you said, the alpha male stuff, what you’re talking about us as Christian fathers ⁓ and mothers listening, the goal is not to get our men to be our boys to be ⁓ fake men, boy men, but real men that that like I always when I pray for my kids and I’m praying that they love the Lord and they love his word and that God uses ⁓ their unique abilities and talents for him.

That they see that. They’re like, like one of my sons is, he’s strong and he likes to use his strength sometimes in the wrong way. And I remind them, like, what did God make you strong for? He made you strong to protect, not to hurt. ⁓ There might be times to hurt, but that’s going to be far and few between.

Joby Martin (46:37)
Correct.

Yeah, in protection. Yeah, I mean, I

wrote a whole chapter on that. mean, you know, it’s Matthew chapter 20 when the boys send their mom to Jesus to try to be sit at his right and left. And Jesus never, he never condemns them for wanting greatness. He just redefines greatness. So there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a great man. Just submit and surrender to Jesus and he’s going to flip it upside down. He’s like, oh, you want me to be great? Well then.

Aaron Smith (46:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Joby Martin (47:09)
Guess what? You’re going to go last. You want to be somebody, you’re going to make yourself a nobody. I mean, this is the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. So that’s what I mean. This, doesn’t have to be confusing. ⁓ By God’s grace, I’ve been able to study and teach the Bible for gosh, 33 years now, pretty much every week of my life for the last 33 years. That’s all I’ve done is teach the Bible. And

each one of these imperatives that Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 16. My favorite way to teach the Bible is to just use the scripture as commentary unto itself.

Aaron Smith (47:45)
yeah, let the scripture interpret itself, yeah.

Joby Martin (47:47)
100 % so when he’s like be watchful I’m like well that’s interesting because in first Peter 5 Peter is talking to the elders of the men of the church You know and this whole thing starts out with watch out. There’s an enemy. He’s trying to kill you Here’s five things you should pay attention to to be on guard like okay cool Stand firm in the faith my mind immediately goes to all in Ephesians chapter 6 four times in three verses Paul uses the word stand stand up or stand firm

Aaron Smith (47:55)
Mm

Joby Martin (48:14)
Talking about spiritual warfare that we have to fight for the faith, not just for ourselves, but for those that God has put under our protection. When it says be strong, my mind goes to Matthew chapter 20. There’s a way to be strong. Jesus just redefines what a strong man is. And then you mentioned it before, when Paul here in first Corinthians 16 says, let all you do be done in love. He’s talking about how to be a man, right? That verse you quoted.

When I was a child, I acted like a child. But when I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. That’s in first Corinthians 13. On the preeminent text on love in the New Testament. mean, even if you’re new to Bible study, you’ve heard it at a wedding, right? Well, here’s this blew me away. When I first was studying this, I had to call my wife and say, babe, I owe you an apology. She’s like, what’s wrong? I said, I haven’t been loving you. And she’s like, what are you talking about? You love me? I was like, oh, no, I love you. Like I have feelings in my heart for you a lot.

Aaron Smith (48:52)
Yep.

Joby Martin (49:11)
And I think you’re like real pretty and I want to be with you all those things. But I haven’t been patient and kind. I have demanded my own way. I am easily irritable. In fact, the things that make me a raging success as a pastor make me a pretty terrible husband. And I’m really sorry. And it’s in that context. Love is patient. Love is kind. Love does not.

Envy love does not boast. Love does not demand its own way. Love, love keeps no record of wrong. Love always trust, always hopes, always perseveres. It’s in that definition that Paul goes, when I was a child, I acted like a child. In other words, when I’m being impatient, when I’m being irritable, when I am being demanding, I’m acting like a kid. And so what happens though, what we’re talking about here, that kind of false machismo is when dudes beat their chest and they’re like, you’re going to do what I say.

Aaron Smith (49:55)
to like a child.

Joby Martin (50:09)
You think you’re being tough. Paul’s like, no, dude, you’re being a toddler. If you want to. Yeah. Right.

Aaron Smith (50:13)
That’s what toddlers do. I have one. They want

what they want, right when they want it.

Joby Martin (50:19)
And so that, that was very, very eyeopening to me. So to be a man, according to Paul is patient, kindness, keeps no record of wrong. Doesn’t demand your own way, not easily irritable, always hopes, always trust, always perseveres. Never gives up. This is what it means. So what we’ll come back to over and over and over in the book is you’ll never know how to stand up, Mac, a man until you bend your knee to the God man, Jesus Christ.

So this is not a pep talk. Because pep talks don’t, I mean they’re inspiring. They just don’t work. They work for like what? 48 hours if you’re awesome? And so ultimately you look at the call to be a man and you go, crap, well I can’t do any of that. And you’re like, okay perfect. Then you are perfectly positioned to receive Christ as your Lord and Savior, get filled with the Spirit, and by the way I got some really good news. His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness. Or in other words,

Aaron Smith (50:48)
Amen.

Amen.

Joby Martin (51:18)
God has given you everything you need through the blood of Jesus, the indwelling Holy Spirit, to accomplish everything that He has called you to accomplish. And so, He came up with the idea that you’re going be a man. If you’re married, He gave you the gift of your wife. And if you have kids, He bestowed you with His title, Dad. So, His divine power in you, you have everything you need with the Spirit of God in you to accomplish everything that He has called you to accomplish. Just align yourself with His word.

Aaron Smith (51:25)
Yep.

Joby Martin (51:48)
and that’s how you’re gonna be about.

Aaron Smith (51:51)
Dude, amen. This is something I just want all the men listening. ⁓ It’s not to put us down. We all got work. Like, every day. You’re talking and I’m like, yeah, I wasn’t loving my wife this morning and I was irritable. I just recently just been really convicted on realizing I haven’t behaved. I haven’t acted like I need Jesus.

I’ve been walking in my own strengths, my own, which is not strong at all. And just recognizing that is that beginning point, like you just said, that need for the God man, Jesus, the need for a savior. then starting with that, I love that he has given us all things, but I want to encourage all the men listening. And I want to thank you, Pastor Joe, before inspiring this and encouraging this, just this idea of getting back to biblical manhood and what does God desire us to be.

The goal, why God wants us to be what he made us to be is because, like you said, you had a bunch of older men around your son speaking into his life. That’s what we need. We’re fathers to our children. Some people here may not have boys, but many probably do. We are fathers to our boys. then something God’s been showing me in my early 40s is it’s not done when they’re out of the house.

I’m going to be a grandfather at some point. I’m going to still be their father. And then as I get older, I, the Bible tells us to look the younger men, to look to the older men as fathers, to entreat them as fathers. That’s what it says. That my role in the church, that your role, our role as men is to raise up men, to be men for the men.

Joby Martin (53:35)
And especially

these days, especially these days. mean, Paul says, look, you got a lot of teachers and this was like pre podcast days, you know, but you don’t have many fathers. So by God’s grace, I have some actual old guy elders in my life. And, you know, if there’s any church planner people out there, listen, before the church started using the word, it just meant oldest, wisest guy in the tribe. You know what I mean? So.

Aaron Smith (53:43)
No, no, okay.

Love that.

Yep. Still does, I think. We just we’ve

changed that.

Joby Martin (54:05)
How about

this? and you will like it. You know the Hebrew word for elder and beard are the same thing. So like if you can’t grow one, you can’t be one. I’m just telling you. You know, and so, so I’ve got some actual old, so for instance, I’ve got a meeting with one of my elders Friday that I requested because I’ve just got some like some financial decisions to make. Everything’s great. It’s actually, this is nothing but a good news kind of meeting.

Aaron Smith (54:10)
I love that. Okay.

you

Joby Martin (54:32)
But I don’t want to make these decisions on my own. And he’s 72 years old or something. And I’m just going over his house, just going to let him hey man, here’s where we are. What should I do? I need some input into my life. And he’s an elder in our church. So we need this. We need this constantly to be happening. One of my favorite things that our church did this last year, we’ve got a senior adult ministry.

Cause I don’t want them to tap out. You know, I don’t know if you’ve read, ⁓ Piper’s don’t waste your life, right? No collecting seashells. and we live at the beach. So this is terrible. I mean, so many people think the goal of life is to get your handicap down to a four on the golf course, but like, you can play golf. That’s fine. It just can’t be the goal of your life. Then we’ve also got this college ministry we call 1825 and we tell them this is not youth group 2.0. This is, we want you to find your place in the great commission over the summer. We marry those two things together.

Aaron Smith (55:00)
Yeah, no tapping out.

Joby Martin (55:27)
We do a midweek Bible study and it’s senior adults and 18 to 25 year olds. And we just, we just put them together at tables and they do Bible study together. And it’s one of the coolest things because the kids need grandparents for wisdom and the grandparents need the kids for some energy in life. And it, I mean, it’s like an adrenaline shot into our church. It’s, it’s incredible. Everybody wins. We need more, more, more of that. Like, in fact, at our

at our church, we don’t even do intergenerate. I mean, we don’t do ⁓ age specific small groups. They’re all intergenerational. Because I’ve told folks from the beginning, man, if you got all the 20 year olds in one room, the concentration of that much ignorance is terrifying to me. We need a my gosh. And so if you’re a younger man.

Aaron Smith (56:05)
Good,

and arrogance.

Joby Martin (56:20)
First of all, this is why you need to be involved in a church. It doesn’t matter how big or small, it doesn’t matter. It’s all kind of different churches. That’s no problem. But you need an intergenerational church. You find you an old dude with a worn out Bible and a wife with a smile on her face. And you go up to that dude and say, can I buy you breakfast once a month? I just want to ask you some questions. That’s what first century discipleship looks like. It’s not a Bible class. It’s just like,

Aaron Smith (56:44)
I would say that’s what.

Joby Martin (56:47)
Hey man, I got questions about work, about kids, about money, about life. That’s first century discipleship.

Aaron Smith (56:53)
Well,

it’s humility in the, in like you said, like, dude, I don’t have anything figured out. It may look like on some levels, but I need, I need help every day of my life. I need someone to go to and be like, I’m, I’m frustrated. I’m angry. I’m sad. I’m confused. And someone that’s also been all of those things 25 times more than me. And that’s, that’s what we need. We need, we need men.

I’ve been saying this for a very long time. I would imagine it’s probably one of the reasons why your church has been so successful is this very mindset of men not just ⁓ lording it over, but saying, I’m here to be poured out to the other men and the other families and to be used for that. It’s something I aspire to. I aspire to be that and it takes a lot of work now, but I also want to see more of it in the older generation.

my father’s generation. so I just, commend you on what you’re doing. I really appreciate it. And I just pray that a lot of people get your book and, ⁓ especially the men, not as a, I don’t want them to think that I’m calling them out. Like, cause I’m sure all these men that if they’re listening to this podcast, they have a heart for like growth and change and they’re trying to, they’re trying to make things happen. They’re being men. So my heart is just that we would, we would step into that more and be like, you know what? I have, I have a long road ahead of me. I, like you said,

Christ has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We can do it because of him. And so thank you so much. Any last thing you want to say to our audience ⁓ before we sign off?

Joby Martin (58:24)
Amen. Amen.

there’s a pastor friend of mine named Jim Bergen, who pastors a Flatirons church in, in Colorado. Great church, great guy too. So I’m stealing this from him. So I want to give credit where credit is due. He was preaching here at our church and he, and he was talking about, it doesn’t matter how you start that matters, you know, and so don’t let your worst days define you. Cause a bunch of guys look at their past and be like, well, I’ve screwed up. And he said this, he goes in the kingdom of God, there are no second chances. There’s the blood of Jesus and from now on.

And so no matter what the past has been, because of the redemptive blood of Christ, the empty tomb and the alarm clock are empirical evidence, fellas, that He’s not done with you. So from now on, just take the next right step in the direction that the Good Shepherd’s calling you and trust Him with the consequence.

Aaron Smith (59:23)
Amen. Tell everyone the name of your book again and where they can get it. And I’ll put all these links in the description as well.

Joby Martin (59:31)
called Stand Firm and Act Like Men. can get it you know, Amazon, all the places. You can go to joeymartin.com and see me talk about it and all the places I preach go up there too.

Aaron Smith (59:42)
Joebe, thank you so much for your time, brother, and keep doing what you’re doing.

Joby Martin (59:46)
Thanks man, peace.