The world as a whole seems to be experiencing crises. In the last five months, we have seen headline after headline in the news and on social media. There is so much hardship, pain, death, loss, uncertainty, fear, chaos, and unrest. In addition to it all, there are countless more trials, hardships, and painful circumstances that didn’t make headlines. We are all hoping for peace. We are all wondering how to walk out these things, especially together in marriage. Whether you are currently facing hardship or if those times are ahead to come, we want to encourage you to walk through them in your marriage together, supporting each other and looking to God’s Word to guide you.
[Aaron] Hey, we’re Aaron and Jennifer Smith, with Marriage After God.
[Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.
[Aaron] And today we’re gonna share how we walk through trials and hardships. Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.
[Jennifer] I’m Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife.
[Aaron] And I’m Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution.
[Jennifer] We have been married for over 13 years.
[Aaron] And so far we have five children under eight.
[Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over nine years through blogging, social media and writing over 10 books.
[Aaron] With a desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day.
[Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life,
[Jennifer] And power
[Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God.
[Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God’s will for our life together.
[Jennifer] This is Marriage After God.
[Aaron] Hey everyone, thank you for coming back to the Marriage After God podcast, this is Episode two of season four. We missed a week, that’s okay. We, sometimes things happen. And that’s kind of what this episode’s about. But before we get into the topic, we just wanna invite you if you have not already, join the thousands of marriages that have taken the marriage prayer challenge. It’s a completely free resource that Jennifer and I have created for you. And all you gotta do is go to marriageprayerchallenge.com all one word. And just fill out the form and boom we’ll start sending you every day for 31 days, a prayer prompt and a reminder to be praying for your spouse. And we literally just wanted to offer this to you to encourage your prayer life that you guys are praying for each other daily. And we hope it inspires a ongoing prayer life even after the 31 days. So that’s marriageprayerchallenge.com, it’s completely free. Go check it out today.
[Jennifer] Alright, so hi, everyone, Jen here . Thanks, Aaron for that awesome intro and reminder to do the marriage prayer challenge. I hope you guys do that. So today’s topic is about walking through hardship and trials and, you know, I just wanted to start out by recognizing and acknowledging that the world as a whole right now, seems to be experiencing crisis after crisis. I mean, 2020 has been a little crazy.
[Aaron] Yeah, we’re not even like halfway through the year, right?
[Jennifer] Oh, man.
[Aaron] And it’s felt–
[Jennifer] Five months, five in five months, we’ve seen headline after headline for I mean, disaster after disaster. We have had massive fires, locust invasions wreaking havoc, the whole COVID-19 thing and the lockdown and that, you know, causing the market crash.
[Aaron] Yeah financial crisis
[Aaron] The highest unemployment rate in history.
[Jennifer] Crazy, injustices that just break our hearts and I mean, just seeing things online and social media and the division between people over all kinds of different things, all kinds of different opinions.
[Aaron] I’ll say this, the internet used to be fun and funny, it’s mostly dreary now. Which you look at it, and, yeah I’m sure we have our connections with our friends and family but, man this world is, it’s chaos.
[Jennifer] I’ll say this. I don’t think we’re the only ones who have thought recently, I just wanna unplug and go, you know,
[Jennifer] I just wanna go–
[Aaron] Where can I go,
[Jennifer] for a hike. I just wanna go fishing.
[Aaron] Where no one else’s
[Jennifer] But you know what? I think that when we experience times like these, it’s so important to just stop and acknowledge it and say, “Okay Lord, what do we need here?” And so Aaron and I were just, you know, thinking about this topic today, and we’re like, “We’re not the only ones experiencing this, “everybody’s experiencing this.” On a grand scale right now and it just feels chaotic. And so we wanted to speak to this right now. And that’s, like I said, on a grand scale, but that’s not even including all the crisis’s that have arose that didn’t make the headlines. Things like people facing hardships in their health, in personal relationships and losing their job or experiencing anxiety.
[Aaron] Or depression or worse. Cause there’s so much stuff going that no one knows about. Because there’s too many of them to make deadlines.
[Jennifer] Yeah. So when we, you know, when we talk about hardships and trials, let’s be reminded that it says this in John 16:33, “I have said these things to you “that in me You may have peace. “In the world you will have tribulation, “but take heart I have overcome the world.”
[Aaron] Is that saying might have tribulation like maybe some people will have tribulation? Or we’ll.
[Aaron] Have tribulation,
[Jennifer] We will.
[Aaron] And this is Jesus speaking to his disciples, and he’s reminding them he’s like you’re going to have tribulation, on varying degrees, varying levels. So everyone’s got things that they’re going through and will go through. You can be in the bed, we talk about this often in our book, just the seasons of life, which are a beautiful thing when you look at just nature, which by the way, nature reveals the invisible attributes of God. You see seasons, you see cold, you see hot, you see rain, you see harvest, you see all these things and they show the different aspects of our ecosystems and how things work but they represent spiritual things too. They represent things that go in our life so you could be in a really great season and then you can go through a really hard season and then you can go through a cold season of like, you know, just questions and wondering, and then you can go through a season of just harvest and plenty, that’s what seasons are for. Unless you live in California and there’s only one season. I’m just joking.
[Jennifer] Even California has its seasons.
[Aaron] Yes. But we will have tribulation, but Jesus encourages us in His Word He says, “Take heart, I have overcome the world.” And what’s awesome is just real quick thinking about this. Being in Christ is our shelter, just like Noah and his family were in the ark. While there was turbulence and casting judgment and just the flood was happening. They were in the ark. And I just, this is our main encouragement is, for this episode is, we are in Christ for all those who name the name of Christ, who have their hope and trust in him, no matter how chaotic it gets, we’re in him and he calms to the storm, so.
[Jennifer] I thank God for that hope. Like I could not imagine surviving this world without having that, you know, as an anchor. Okay, so we just wanted to give you guys some encouragement, some inspiration, something to help you as a married couple, survive, walk through, encourage each other through–
[Aaron] Thriving maybe.
[Jennifer] Yeah, maybe even thrive through hardship and trial.
[Aaron] Yeah. So, on a personal note, we’ve been walking through some trials recently. I mean, we’ve gone through various trials in our life, but currently going through some pretty hard things.
[Jennifer] Things that, you know, have had a kind of heavy filling over our marriage, our daily life, our ministry, and, you know, we’ve felt tested, you know, through it.
[Aaron] Being tested, yeah.
[Jennifer] being tested through it, refined through it.
[Jennifer] Yeah, humbled.
[Aaron] That’s a good one. That’s probably the biggest one is we’re being humbled in this trial, reminding us how little we actually have control over in our life.
[Jennifer] Yeah, and I’ll say this, when you experience hardship face-to-face like that, you go through the motions, you have emotion, right, like,
[Aaron] You mentioned something about like the seven stages of grief.
[Jennifer] When we were talking before,
[Aaron] I don’t know what those exactly are, but it felt like that we were going through like boldness and then like weakness, and then fear and then like anger and then like,
[Jennifer] Frustration and then sadness, and it’s like all of it.
[Aaron] Confusion and then silence and then like we’ve been going through all of them, as a couple and those are normal things, But, our point in this episode today is, there is something that we as believers get to hold on to because that, even everything I just said, feels like it’s like a whip, like back and forth,
[Jennifer] Back and forth, back and forth,
[Aaron] Back and forth up and down, like the waves of the ocean being tossed by the wind. But as believers, those things may happen, and naturally in our flesh, we might want to be tossed around like that, it might be the easiest solution because it just happens. But is there something for us to grasp onto? Or is that just the fate of a believer when they go through trials? And that’s what I wanna, I think we should dig into.
[Jennifer] Yeah, totally. And we’re just sharing that with you guys, because we felt like if we’re facing something like this, it’s totally possible and probably–
[Jennifer] Likely that you are facing hardship in your marriage, in your life, in your family., so we just wanted to talk about this today and remind ourselves of some really important truths that God has laid out in his word for us. So yeah. Maybe we should get started with, when hardships come, first of all, we know they’re hardships, right? Like, they suck. Nobody likes them. But how should we respond, Aaron?
[Aaron] Yeah, I think as believers, first of all, we have something to respond with, and we have someone to respond with, which is really awesome. So just encouraging that, we have a Savior, we have a God who loves us and knows us and actually isn’t surprised by the things we’re going through. So just first and foremost, knowing that is amazing.
[Jennifer] I’ll say this personally. I think that the flesh is quicker to respond, you know, the flesh flares up really quick and you just want to respond in that,
[Aaron] It reacts.
[Jennifer] And reacts, so if you’re not abiding in Christ, and you’re not familiar with God’s word, that flesh is gonna take
[Aaron] It’s gonna react
[Jennifer] The lead, right?
[Aaron] Yeah, I would imagine just naturally if you think about, like, if someone turns a flashlight on quickly in your eyes, like you close your eyes, your eyes dilate naturally, you have no control over it, boom, it does what it’s supposed to do. And so in our flesh, we do have natural fleshly responses, naturally, you know, you step into something cold, you feel the cold and your body responds to it. You get pinched, you feel the pain, your body responds to it. But what’s amazing about knowing the Lord is He’s given us of His Holy Spirit. And it allows us, you know, as the old Switchfoot song goes, “A new way to be human.” we have a new way to respond in the flesh. And so we may react, like the reaction might happen, but then we can respond in to that reaction, and to the circumstance that’s causing the reaction differently, then people that don’t have the hope of Christ, people that don’t have the word of God. But that right there is the walk that we get to take, the race that we get to run, is that natural, spirit and flesh, you know, convergence in our life. So I don’t wanna condemn anyone. for responding, I should say reacting in the flesh to these hardships because we’ve been doing that. But the encouragement is, with the Spirit of God as it tells us in 2 Peter 1:3, “We’ve been given all things that pertain to life “and godliness in Christ Jesus, our Lord.” So we get something, we have something else. We don’t just have the flesh to respond, and we have the Spirit of God, that we can ask to animate our reactions, to change our reactions, to show us how to repent of our reactions, if necessary.
[Jennifer] So that’s the key right there, as you said, ask God and so I guess the first response should be prayer, like before you even consider what the hardship is or what the solution is or how to resolve, we have to go to the Lord and say, “God, why is this happening? “What do you want me to learn from it?”
[Aaron] No, my way of responding is I’m gonna figure out the answer today, and like, we’re gonna solve it right now–
[Jennifer] Mr. Fix it, no. I think that it’s so important to pray, you know, when we’re going through this recent trial, our seven year old son said, he overheard us talking and he goes, “Hey guys, I think that you just need to pray.”
[Aaron] So pretty much every time he’s seen us discussing and where we’re at, and he can tell that there’s just hardness going on. He doesn’t really know what’s going on, but he would say things like, “Hey, make sure you pray before and after.” He’s like, “Oh, we need to pray.” stop and pray.
[Jennifer] Actually, he told me to pray before and after, because God is the Alpha and Omega. I thought that was really–
[Aaron] Oh, he did say that.
[Jennifer] Yeah, I thought that was really clever, or cool.
[Aaron] Yeah, like pray in the beginning, bring God in the beginning and bring God into the after and bring God into the middle.
[Jennifer] So, you know, we mentioned the marriage prayer challenge, and that all is about prayer. And I just wanna remind you guys like it is so important that we’re praying together not just for our marriage and for each other in marriage, but we gotta be praying together. I think that has been such a powerful thing that has helped us survive and walk through hardship in our life.
[Aaron] Well, because it’s us petitioning our Father in heaven saying, “Hey, help us. “We don’t know, we’re confused. “I wanna be this way, I wanna act this way.” And we ask God not just to take it away we ask for Him to take these things away.
[Jennifer] But also for the wisdom to go through it.
[Aaron] Yeah, and how do we go through this? And will you make us stronger in this?
[Jennifer] So let’s read some verses. Romans 12:12 says, “Rejoice in hope, “be patient in tribulation, “be constant in prayer.” And I love that reminder of just like, bam, bam, bam, this is what you do. You rejoice in the hope that you have, you be patient throughout it cause who knows how long it’s gonna last? We always hope that it’s shorter than longer, but, you know, he calls us to be patient, but then be constant in prayer.
[Aaron] Yeah. And that it starts with that hope. Cause like I started this out with is, we have hope in Christ. And then we can be patient that’s a fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience. And then prayer is a weapon that God’s given us. It’s a tool to battle with, that we run to him and say, “I don’t know what I’m doing and I think about, “you know, story after story in the Bible, “of men running to God in prayer.” Almost all the songs in like the beginning of Psalms, when David’s being chased by Solomon, all right by Saul, not Solomon is by Saul, is him praying for vindication, praying for safety, praying for protection, praying for humbleness, praying for all these things. He’s saying, “Lord save me.” So we run to prayer and Philippians 4:6-7, again, all these trials can bring on anxiousness, anxieties, worries, because we–
[Jennifer] Cause we don’t know.
[Aaron] And we can’t control it. And, you know, what’s gonna come next? And it says, “Do not be anxious about anything “but in everything, by prayer and supplication, “with thanksgiving let your request be made known to God “and the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, “will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
[Jennifer] So something that stands out to me about that verse, which I love this verse, and I feel like I’ve held on to this–
[Aaron] It’s famous we’ve all heard it.
[Jennifer] Yeah, we’ve all clung to it
[Aaron] Yeah, remember this.
[Jennifer] But for me, going through this last trial Aaron, was your reminder to be thankful for whatever comes to mind, for anything and everything, even the hardship itself, even the trial itself. So, it says do not be anxious, which is an act, you have to actively choose not to be anxious. But in that, when those anxieties come, going to God in prayer with thanksgiving, like telling him what you’re thankful for, and I think that shifts our perspective of the issue. What do you say?
[Aaron] Yeah, well and the other part of it that I wanna bring up is, it says, in the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding and that understanding peace often I feel like we’re not gonna release the anxieties and the fears until we can understand.
[Jennifer] I definitely feel that way.
[Aaron] Yeah, so like, it’s a fear of like, if I let go of what I’m feeling, then I feel like I’m gonna spin out of control, when in reality, we’re already spinning out of control. And so we’re looking for complete, perfect understanding before trusting God. Which may not come in the timing that we want. But what God’s saying is, “Trust me, be thankful, come to me, “and my peace that surpasses your understanding, “which is what we really want, it’s the thing that’s gonna guard our hearts and our minds. Which in these, this time, it’s our heart and our mind that is the most susceptible to deception. Like I feel a certain way therefore, that feeling must be true, right? And it might not be, most of the time our feelings are not right. You know, and so we can guard our hearts, Christ will guard our hearts with God’s peace.
[Jennifer] That’s so good. I just wanted to quick side note, tangent on peace. I was talking with a friend recently, and she was like, “You know Jen, I feel like, “I just need to encourage you.” Because sometimes when you’re going through a hardship, all you can crave is peace. But the kind of peace that our flesh tells us we need is that escape is that, well, I just wanna have a good day, out in the sunshine, which there’s nothing wrong with, it’s just, she was encouraging me that God’s peace is so much more than a good day. God’s peace is so much more than a vacation. God’s peace is so much more than everything working out perfectly in your life all the time. His peace surpasses all of that. It’s a different kind of peace. It’s not a worldly peace. That’s what she was showing me this contrast between what the world would say is peace, and what our flesh craves in times of hardship, and what God’s peace truly is.
[Aaron] And this is what’s awesome when there’s kinda peace, go ahead.
[Jennifer] I was just gonna say, I really hope that that picture encourages you guys as much as it encouraged me.
[Aaron] Yeah, well, and this is what makes the gospel so amazing is, when we tell someone, the good news that Jesus died for their sins that they can be saved in Him, that they can have a right relationship with God, what we’re saying is, is they can have peace with God. And God’s peace, which is amazing. So peace as in no more turmoil, like we’re not against, we’re no longer enemies of God. But now we can also have His peace, and that Peace isn’t contingent on your circumstances. It’s not like Paul had peace while he was in prison, right? Peter had peace while he was in prison, and they were gonna be martyred for the gospel. So this peace is not a worldly peace. You know, Jesus even says that the peace I give you is not of the world, right? And so this peace is so much more, it’s greater. It’s a peace that surpasses understanding. Which leads me to this next verse of Proverbs 3:5-6, talking about this idea of our understanding like, “I can trust you, Lord, and I won’t have peace Lord, “and I won’t be able to have Thanksgiving Lord “until I can understand why.” Or understand how, or understand when. Like all the answers we want, once I have all those, then I’ll be able to. But it doesn’t work that way. He says, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart “and do not lean on your own understanding,” “in all your ways acknowledge Him, “and He will make straight your paths.” So we expect an infinite God, who knows all, who is orchestrating amazing things for you, and for others and the salvation of many, and in this world and everything that’s going on, and we want him to give us understanding on our situation. Like, I don’t think we could ever until we’re in heaven in our perfect bodies. Understand the complexity and the circumstances in every way that what we’re going through is going to be used for God’s glory. Like my hardship, like we look at the apostles, the things they went through, the things that God allowed and ordained for them, was for our benefit. And they could not have known how their word being inspired by the Holy Spirit and be written in letters, to the early church were going to affect the current church. But it did. And so we have these words, to stand on. “Trust in the Lord with all your heart “and do not lean on your understanding.” God is so trustworthy. Jennifer, do you agree?
[Jennifer] Oh, yeah.
[Aaron] Like, is your heart more trustworthy than God?
[Jennifer] No, God is trustworthy, and, I’ll say this is not easy for me to say that because I’m human and, you know, we talked earlier about those fleshly responses to things and humans wrestle with doubt. They wrestle with wanting to have that full picture understanding like you said, and I’ve been guilty of that. I, you know, I wrestle in my relationship with the Lord, but when I bring those wrestlings to Him in prayer, and I thank Him for everything He’s done in my life, and I tell Him with my words in my heart, in my mind, I trust you. That’s when I have confidence in Him and what He’s doing. And I also wanna just acknowledge that with, specifically with this verse, at the end it says, “He will make straight your paths.” I love that because it just reminds us that He’s got our future. He knows what’s coming. He knows what the resolve will be, how the solution will come. And we can trust Him for those things. And it makes me think of the parting of the Red Sea and how miraculous that experience for the Israelites truly was, because they had been on this journey. They’re fleeing from their enemy. There’s mountains on both sides, and they’re standing at the shore going, “Okay, there’s a bunch of water in front, now what?”
[Aaron] Yeah, before you go on to the next part of this, you’ve been reading and I can’t remember what book but there was a part that says,
[Jennifer] It was in in Psalms.
[Aaron] Yeah, it says, “What was the Lord’s way?”
[Jennifer] It said that the Lord’s way was through the water.
[Aaron] So, now go back to you.
[Jennifer] Okay, so they’re standing there probably as any one of us would going, “This is impossible.”
[Aaron] Yeah, enemy pursuing behind.
[Jennifer] This is impossible.
[Aaron] Walls on every side and then we got just like,
[Jennifer] Essentially there’s–
[Aaron] Body or water we can’t–
[Jennifer] They’re facing death, they’re going, they’re saying there’s nothing else for us, and yet God made a way and he did it in his own power, in his own way, and they got to walk through on dry ground through the waters. Now even that, in itself was probably terrifying. It says that there was a wall of water on both their left and their right side, so when we’re facing hardships you guys, I just, I have to go back to that story and remember and say, “Okay Lord, I feel like this is an impossible situation, “but I trust you.” And when we trust in him and we don’t lean on our own understanding, He will make straight our paths.
[Aaron] Yeah and I love the straight your paths part because in the seasons of hardship it can be very cloudy, dark, so when I think about these, you know, seasons we’re in it could feel dark and like blinding and like we have no idea what the next step is to take. And I think of the plague on Egypt when Egypt was complete darkness and it said it was a darkness that could be felt. That’s what trials feel like, right? But the Israelites, the Hebrews, and I think they were in Goshen was light. They were not in darkness that could be felt. And so the enemy is gonna make us think in these times and he’s done it to us, is that we are in darkness and we have no idea and we don’t know what the next step to take is, but as believers when we trust in the Lord, and we say, “Okay, I’m just gonna take the next right step.” I’m just gonna say, I don’t know, what is your word say, I’m gonna step, God makes our path straight. You may not be able to see five steps ahead or even one step ahead, but we know God’s gonna guide our steps as long as we’re abiding in Him and His Word.
[Jennifer] Okay so, how else are we supposed to respond Aaron?
[Aaron] This is a hard one. Because going back to that idea of like, we just want like the happy day and we want the sunshine and the, you know, nothing hard and nothing, joy.
[Jennifer] Yeah, I want some joy.
[Aaron] Yeah, but we look at joy as something that’s going to be coming to us. Like if all this was gone, then I’d have joy.
[Jennifer] Or someone give it to me.
[Aaron] Or Yeah, if someone just handed me, you know, the solution, then I’ll have joy. But James 1:2-4 says this, “Count it all joy, “my brother’s when you meet trials of various kinds.” So this is a perspective thing. This isn’t an external like we will get this thing, some of the time. We can count something joy, so we can look at the equation that we don’t know the answer to and we can say, “Well, this is joy.” I’m gonna count this thing right now that is hurting me, and isn’t feeling good, and it’s humbling me, and it’s scary, I’m gonna count that thing, joy.
[Jennifer] And real quick. It’s not just one thing that’s a trial, it’s not just one type of hardship, it says various kinds. And I think we also need to acknowledge that there are so many things that a married couple can walk through together and can face
[Aaron] Any believer.
[Aaron] In reality.
[Aaron] When you meet trials of various kinds.
[Jennifer] So keep going, keep going.
[Aaron] For you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness, so but real quick. If we’re a believer, and we don’t want our faith tested, we should just ask ourselves where our heart is before the Lord, Okay? So it says for you know, that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. So when your faith is tested, that’s a good thing.
[Jennifer] It’s producing something good.
[Aaron] It’s a good thing. Cause a faith that’s not tested is no faith at all. Because how do you know you have faith until you’re tested in that faith, right? So you think about all the stories of Old, Abraham, God spoke to him, “Go to the land that I’ll tell you.” And then he got up and he packed his donkeys and he left, right? And then one step after another, everything that God told him, he was tested in his response. And so our faith is going to be tested. And it’s like a refining fire, it makes that faith more valuable, which is awesome, if you think about it.
[Jennifer] So are you saying that as Christians, we should accept the testing?
[Aaron] Yeah, and receive it with joy, count it all joy. Because this thing we’re going through, is gonna make us more like Christ, make us more steadfast. It says it produces steadfastness and let that steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete lacking nothing. This isn’t the kind of perfection that we think of when we think of sinlessness. The perfect and complete means whole, okay? Cause we are broken people, with broken ways of thinking, broken ways of reacting, broken ways of being raised, lots of brokenness. But the perfect and complete lacking nothing, that steadfastness means you will have everything necessary. I just brought that up in 2 Peter 1:3, “You have been given all things.” So the steadfastness, its full effect, makes us perfect and complete. Lacking nothing, means we’re capable as believers to continue on in our faith, in our walk with God, with boldness, with strength, for Him, and His glory.
[Jennifer] Okay so, you know, we shared that we had been walking through a trial and I had been wrestling a lot with it, and you kept bringing up this Word, steadfastness or being steadfast, and–
[Aaron] And you asked me a question, you said, “Okay, steadfast in what?”
[Aaron] No, you have to apologize cause you were struggling and you said, I was bringing this up and I’m sure listeners are saying, “That sounds great, but what am I to remain steadfast in? “steadfast in what?” Because there’s a trial, it’s hard, does it mean just being in it?
[Jennifer] Yeah, so what do you say”
[Aaron] Cause it’s a good question. What are we to remain steadfast in? Is it to remain steadfast in our strength? Our own strength, our own abilities? Because that doesn’t work. Because we got to the end of ourselves real quick. Like, I don’t wanna do this anymore. I’m over it, I wanna escape, I wanna run away. Our own knowledge, cause my knowledge is limited. I can try and navigate things, but I can only get so far in my knowledge. It’s limited, I can’t remain in my own knowledge. It’s got very .
[Jennifer] Same with our abilities, they’re limited. Even if you’re the most able person out there, you still have limitations.
[Aaron] We are incapable of remaining steadfast in our own abilities, right? That’s what it is, we’re incapable. Which is why we need our Savior, because we are not able, He is.
[Jennifer] So you answered the question when I asked you, “Steadfast in what?” You said in the Word of God.
[Aaron] Yeah, it’s our rock. It’s our fortress. It’s our foundation,
[Jennifer] to refuge.
[Aaron] Yeah, the Bible says that, “In the beginning was the Word, “and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” And then later on, it says, “And it came and it dwelt with man.” Jesus Christ, like the Word of God is the physical representation we currently have of Jesus. It’s His Word. And what’s amazing is and we’ve talked about this, what did God create everything with?
[Jennifer] His Word.
[Aaron] What is Jesus gonna destroy everything with?
[Jennifer] His Word.
[Aaron] His Word. This is what it says, it says in Revelation coming in on a horse and a sword coming out of his mouth, right? What’s the sword of the Spirit?
[Jennifer] The Word of God.
[Aaron] That’s what the Bible tells us. So the thing that we remain steadfast in, is the Word of God, the unchanging, living, active, sharper than a two-edged sword, piercing to the bone and marrow, right? Word of God.
[Jennifer] So practically speaking, is it just, when you say being steadfast in the Word of God, is it saying to yourself, “Yeah, I believe in the Word of God?”
[Aaron] No, it’s meditating day and night, on the promises and the truths that it says to us about us.
[Jennifer] So reading it, believing it, saying it out loud.
[Aaron] Walking in it, right? When it says
[Jennifer] Doing what it says
[Aaron] Yeah, doing what it says, that is what we remain steadfast in. So just rewind a little bit. I’m spiraling out of control, I’m anxious, I’m worried I can’t Oh, you keep telling me all these things, but I can’t be anxious for nothing, but in all things by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, lift your request to the Lord, and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus, Okay? So the flesh wants to do this thing. So how do we remain steadfast? Okay, I mean, just Lord, thank you that I have life today. Thank you for your Son, Jesus and salvation. Thank you that, if none of this gets resolved, I have you. I’ll have eternity with you. Thank you Lord, but also I am scared Lord, I don’t know how to handle this Lord. That’s what you’re steadfast in. Not just repeating the words over and over again, but believing the words and doing what they say. Because they have power. Paul says, “I’m not ashamed of the gospel for, it is the power of God into salvation. Timothy, Paul tells Timothy, the Word of God, all of it is good for proof and for teaching and for education and for the maturity of the Christian. That’s what it’s for. So what are we to remain steadfast in? Our own knowledge, what we’re capable of, what we can control? Man, I don’t know, nearly enough to be able to answer the problems in this world, let alone my own life. But the Word of God does. And I can lean on it and say, “I don’t know how this is gonna work God,
[Jennifer] But I trust you.
[Aaron] But I trust you.
[Jennifer] It’s kinda hard to move on from that cause it was so good and so simple and so necessary to just abide in the Word of God. But there are some other ways that we can respond in times of hardship, and something that I really wanted to share with you guys was praise. Because sometimes I don’t know what to pray. Sometimes I don’t know exactly where to go to in God’s word other than but I know that it’s good, and like you said, we have to remain steadfast in it. But if I can quickly put my phone on to some sort of worship song, I immediately start to gain perspective on who God is. And that’s the most important thing aside, you know, all the distractions of what you may be walking through, all the little minute details of the situation that you’re familiar with. If you could just turn your eyes and turn your heart and turn your everything to God, in praise and in worship.
[Aaron] Real quick, in praise and worship, I mean, what it’s doing is meditating on what God says about us.
[Aaron] And who he is. So it takes our eyes off of us and puts it on Him, with melodies and with songs and praise, so
[Jennifer] And God just must love it, like that’s how He sees that we’re trusting in Him. He sits there and He sees that we’re crying out to Him, saying, “God, I don’t know what to do, but I trust you, “and I’m gonna sing to you.” It just must be so beautiful to Him.
[Aaron] Isn’t there a story in X where, I think Paul is in prison, and they’re singing hymns in the cell?
[Aaron] That’s a good beautiful picture of that.
[Jennifer] That is really cool. Being amidst the suffering.
[Aaron] Yeah, amidst a pit. You’re in a pit and you’re just singing praises to the Lord.
[Jennifer] So even in impossible situations, we can still use our whole self to worship God. In Psalm 100, I’m just gonna read the whole thing, cause it’s only five verses but it says, “Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth. “Serve the Lord with gladness, “come into His presence with singing, “know that the Lord, He is God. “It is He who made us and we are His. “We are His people and the sheep of His pasture. “Enter His gates with thanksgiving “and His courts with praise, “give thanks to Him, bless His name, “for the Lord is good, His steadfast love endures forever “and His faithfulness to all generations.”
[Aaron] And that’s why we can praise Him and worship Him because He is faithful.
[Jennifer] He is good.
[Aaron] Yeah, the Bible tells us that when we are faithless, like when we cannot do it, He remains faithful because He cannot deny Himself. And that encourages my faith. Because He is so good and consistent and steadfast and perfect and knows all and He’s capable. And I can trust him.
[Jennifer] Sometimes, you know, sometimes when I’m at the end of myself and I don’t know what to do, sometimes I’ll just sing a prayer. So instead of just praying, I’ll seeing what I wanna pray and it’s really, really encouraging. Little encouragement for you guys. Some other songs that have really just inspired and touched our hearts lately is, “There’s Another In The Fire.” I don’t know
[Aaron] That was really good
[Jennifer] I don’t know if these are the titles of the songs or not. I probably should have looked that up, but it says “There’s Another In The Fire” standing next to me and it’s just like reminding us that, He is with us. “Here again” Is really good. “Give me faith” Do you have any other that–
[Aaron] Yeah, the Shane and Shane song, “Though You Slay Me.”
[Jennifer] That one’s really good too.
[Aaron] Which just talks about being just the lowest, but even there, I will sing your praise. Even there, I will worship your name. Another thing that’s important for believers and we talked about, I think we talked about this the most out of anything, is, and when you’re in trials, when you’re in hardships and when in you’re in good things, is being in the presence of the Body of Christ, being with other believers, not secluding, not retreating.
[Jennifer] That’s what the flesh will tell you is good. The flesh will tell you, you just need to be by yourself right now. You just need to walk away from everything and everyone because it’s hard, right?
[Aaron] Yeah, Romans 18:1 says I think it says, “A fool separates himself “and goes out against all sound judgment, right? This idea is like going to be alone, in the midst of something hard, is way more dangerous and foolish than being around people who can remind you of who you are. Remind you of the truth and the Word of God, remind you to sing–
[Jennifer] Who God is.
[Aaron] Remind you who God is. To hold you when you feel like you’re falling.
[Jennifer] To comfort you, to pray with you, to sing with you, to…
[Aaron] We are all members of one body. And that is exactly what the enemy wants, is separation. And saying, you know what? Go hide, that’s way better for you. You won’t have to be accountable to anyone, no one wants to know what’s going on, just hide it. And sadly, this could be done while you’re around people. So the idea is not just be in the presence of people, but you be present as well. Like, reveal, I’m broken, I have no idea how to get out of where I’m at. I have no idea how I got where I’m at. I need help and prayer and encouragement And just being more afraid of the darkness than the light. because that’s what it is, when we are walking through these things, we wanna retreat into the darkness. Rather than being in the light. And so I would say run to the light, so that the darkness becomes light, so that everything is seen visible and becomes light as the Word tells us.
[Jennifer] Yeah, and a part of being in the presence of his people is remembering that there are other people suffering as well. So even amidst your own hardship and your own trial and your own suffering, there’s other people who are also going through their own things and–
[Aaron] And maybe heavier things or harder things. Which is perspective, right?
[Jennifer] Or maybe not, and that’s okay too. My point is that it’s so important for us as believers and as a part of one body, we lift each other up. And so it’s this, it’s saying, even though I’m going through something really hard right now, I see where you’re at, and I’m gonna pray for you and I’m gonna encourage you and I’m gonna do everything that I would want, someone to do with me, because that is what the body is supposed to do.
[Aaron] Yeah isn’t that talk about that, that we use it for marriage, the core to three strands. But the idea is a person walking alone falls and has no one to help them. Two people may even be stronger and can fight off, you know, a robber, right? But three people, like it just talks about the strength in numbers. It’s wisdom, it’s wise to walk with brothers and sisters and we’re commanded to do it. We’re to be with each other. And to not forsake the gathering of the fellowship as some have done in a rebellious manner. Like we were to come together. That doesn’t mean maybe you have a day off. That doesn’t mean surround yourself 24/7, it means, don’t avoid it. Run to your brothers and sisters, that open up your heart, say, “This is where I’m at, This is how I’m thinking.” And don’t be afraid to be honest.
[Jennifer] Don’t be afraid to cry in front of them.
[Aaron] Don’t be afraid to say I’m struggling in my beliefs, my faith.
[Jennifer] Or I’m wrestling with some doubt.
[Aaron] Yeah. And let them preach to you. Let them encourage you, let them remind you of the truth. Because that’s what loving people do.
[Jennifer] So good. Okay, so we’ve talked a lot about how we can respond as a couple to hardships when we face those things. You know, on a practical of super basic, practical encouragement would be, be there for your spouse. I mean, we have the ability to text one another, to talk to one another, to share scriptures with one another, to pray for one another. All these things that Aaron and I have been talking about, it’s for each other. And don’t forget that because when you’re in marriage, there’s something so powerful and so beautiful about the way that God’s given you, someone to truly not, like you’re not walking alone. They’re going through it just as much as you are. And we can be there for each other to lift each other up.
[Aaron] And pretending the thing is not happening, won’t help. So being aware, say, “Hey, okay, we’re in this season, “let’s be in open communication more than usual.”
[Jennifer] Yeah, more than usual. Also giving each other, having patience for one another and giving each other grace in the wrestling because sometimes, if one of the, you know, spouse is being strong and confident in the Lord, but the other one’s wrestling and unsure and unstable, it’s so affirming for the stronger spouse to come alongside the other one and say, “It’s okay, I’m here for you, “I’m praying for you.”
[Aaron] We’re in this together.
[Jennifer] Reminding them of Scripture. I can’t tell you how much Aaron, you’ve encouraged me recently in doing that.
[Aaron] And you’ve done the same for me. I know it’s been different levels, but like we have, we’ve been in this together. It’s not just you and your thing, it’s ours.
[Jennifer] Yeah. And we need to do that for each other. Okay, so now we’re gonna move on to, okay, so when we respond to hardship, what can we hope for if we walk faithfully through them together?
[Aaron] Yeah, and what we’ve experienced, as we’ve been trying our earthly best to do these things, is we’ve experienced a lot more talking.
[Jennifer] Yeah, better communication.
[Aaron] We’ve been communicating a lot more with each other more than usual. Like when things are kind of just going, we kinda forget to talk sometimes. It’s kinda life.
[Aaron] But we’ve been talking a lot. We’ve been talking with the kids a lot. We’ve been talking with each other a lot. We’ve been talking with friends a lot. So a lot more openness and communication has been occurring.
[Jennifer] I’d say it makes us stronger as a married couple cause we look at the last trial and go, “Well, we already made it through that one “so we can make it through this one.”
[Aaron] Or if we feel like we can’t make it through this one and we remind each other like, “Well, we did make it through the last one, “so let’s keep going.”
[Aaron] Let’s not give up.
[Aaron] It’s made us appreciate each other a lot more. It’s also, I just wanna say, it’s made me appreciate God’s word, and God and like, how I’ve been leaning on him so much. On this each other thing, I wanna just step back one thing, and you were talking about the grace for each other and being with each other. Remembering also that we are not each other’s Savior.
[Aaron] Remembering that we are both weak, and we are still in the flesh and we’re not perfect, and that your spouse isn’t the one that can ultimately fix all of the issues. Now, they may be the one responsible for it, and that means they could repent and they could work on it. But again, don’t look to your spouse as the solution. Look to them as a partner in the problem. Like we’re working together and look to God as the solution. And our faith in Him and His word, just as an encouragement of, because I can look at this and be like, “Jennifer, if you were just stronger, this would be easier.” But that’s not the reality, like the reality is, is we’re gonna be weak. And you can look at me and say like, “If you would just do this, this and this.” And there might be some truth in some of these things, but we are people and it’s gonna be hard. And so we trust in the one who is perfect. We trust in the one who has saved us, the one who’s building a kingdom, you know. So I just wanted to go back to that each other part.
[Jennifer] No, it’s really good. I think it’s important that we kind of sit here for a second cause I’m just thinking too when God allows us to go through hardship, we also have to remember that we have an enemy, and the enemy will try and use whatever he can to make us divisive against each other, to make us feel,
[Aaron] brothers and sisters in Christ.
[Jennifer] To make us feel apart, to make us feel against–
[Jennifer] Or alone, or that were each other’s enemies. And I think that’s across the board. It happens with every marriage that this comes, I kinda had this picture of, Aaron we we’re both in our bedroom and you were over by the closet and I was trying to explain this to you, but it felt like if you can imagine tendons or sinews between us, being stretched out and pulled almost like there was grips on both of us just pulling us apart and the pain of, you can imagine of that happening in someone’s body, but trying to separate us. So we always say in marriage, we’re one. But in this picture, I saw us being ripped apart into two and I think that if we allow division, amidst hardship to take hold of us, that is what we will feel, that is the pain that we will experience. And I’m so glad that I was able to share that with you cause I was letting you know like what I was–
[Aaron] And you communicated with me.
[Jennifer] Yeah. And I think when we recognize that happening in our marriage, it’s also so important for us to come back and like remind each other that we’re physically present. So me just putting my hand on your shoulder or you holding my hands during prayer, or–
[Aaron] Which does not feel easy .
[Jennifer] It is not easy to be close and intimate and loving during a time that feels so burdensome and so hard, and yet it’s the thing that we need to do. And so I hope that encourages someone listening right now.
[Aaron] another thing that we can hope for and realize in the middle of our trials and tribulations is, we can be humble by it. Because the Bible tells us that God brings low the proud, but he exalts the humble. And the Lord loves humbleness, right? A humble and a broken and contrite spirit, the Lord will not, you know, distain, he wants that in us, he wants humbleness. And so if we just look at hardship or people coming against us, or things that are hurtful or painful in our life as just, oh, I don’t deserve any of this, I shouldn’t have any of this or this is just against me and like I just want this out of my life so I can move on. Then we’re being prideful, because to be honest, all of us are being sanctified. The Bible tells us that He disciplines those He loves. If we’re his children, some things in our life, we have to kinda say, like, “Lord is this discipline? “Is there anything in me that you’re trying “to draw out of me? “That you want to cut out of me?” Cause to be honest those are prayers that we ask, “Lord change me, make me more like you. “Is there anything in me that you need to take away?” And sometimes the only way that thing’s gonna come out is through trial. Through tribulation, through hardship.
[Jennifer] Well, because we get pressed against and then what comes out of us, right? And so, yeah, I think that’s really important to ask God, “What do you want us to learn from this?”
[Jennifer] Yeah, so don’t just take every trial, every, you know, thing that comes against you as like, Oh, you know, this is external and has nothing to do with me and I don’t deserve this but humbly ask the Lord, “What do you want me to learn here? “What is there in me that you want me to repent of? “Is there something in me that this is highlighting “that you want me to grow in?”
[Jennifer] It reminds me in the Psalms when David says, “Search me, search my heart Oh God,”
[Aaron] “And see if there be any wicked way in me.” Because that’s the thing is we still have a fleshly nature, we still have wickedness inside of us that the Lord’s drawing out of us. He’s clearing the rooms, just like Jesus made a whip and went into the temple and flip tables and kicked, and He said, “This will be a house of prayer.” We are his temple. So when we invite Jesus in, we might have some doors shut, and he wants to kick ’em in, and he wants to clear ’em out
[Jennifer] Gimme that.
[Aaron] And he wants it for himself. And so I think, in these trials and these seasons, we should say, “Okay Lord, I’m gonna get on my knees. “I’m gonna say, here I am. “What is there that I need to repent of? “What is there that you’re showing me, “you want changed and me to mature in “and you want me to let go of and release?” We gotta be humble. And we can know that God’s gonna do that. He wants us to be humble. We should want to be humble. Because I don’t wanna be brought low and destroyed. And it says, “Pride comes before destruction.” It even talks about how great that destruction will be if we remain in our pride. So I’d rather be humbled and be lowly in spirit and say, “Okay Lord, like I’m here for you. “I trust you, I believe in you, I love you. “I know you got, “you want me to learn grow and you wanna sanctify me.” And He uses many different means to do that in our lives. And we should be okay with that.
[Jennifer] So, there’s also some scriptures, we wanted to share with you guys of things that we can hope for, as we faithfully walk through hardships together. So we’re just gonna kind of read ’em or if there’s anything you wanna share about ’em Aaron you can. But, the first one is 1 Peter 5:10. And it says, “And after you have suffered a little while, “the God of all grace, “who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ “will himself restore, confirm, “strengthen and establish you.”
[Aaron] Yeah. And what’s good about that is we wanna look at that as like right now. Okay, I’m gonna suffer a little bit and he’s gonna restore me confirming certain things. Sometimes that happens.
[Jennifer] Yeah, a little bit, like, just a little bit.
[Jennifer] But just a little bit.
[Aaron] This is an internal perspective, right?
[Jennifer] Sometimes the little bit, is a long time.
[Aaron] So yeah, there’s another scripture that says, “I count my current sufferings as nothing to be compared “with the coming glory.” I believe it’s in Romans. And that’s the idea it’s like we have an eternal glory that we’re waiting for. This earth, it’s gonna be judged, it’s gonna be burned with fire, like all the elements, like , like what we see now isn’t our permanent home. We’re ambassadors, we’re temporary residents, waiting for our home with the Lord. So he may restore and confirm and strengthen currently, but really, eternally we are that.
[Jennifer] Like for sure
[Aaron] For sure.
[Jennifer] That’s the hope.
[Aaron] Right, yeah, Romans 5:1-5 says, “Therefore since we have been justified by faith, “we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” There’s that peace again. It’s eternal peace,
[Jennifer] His peace.
[Aaron] It’s His peace, and it’s in Jesus. Through Him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, there’s that word endurance or steadfastness again. And endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. So right there we have this hope with that’s in Jesus Christ we have His peace, faith, spirit, endurance, all these things are all wrapped up in our abiding in him. And it’s amazing.
[Jennifer] Another good one from Romans is Romans 8:28. Before I read it, I just wanna encourage you guys to go back and read all of Romans 8, it’s just good.
[Aaron] Yeah, all of Romans 8 is powerful.
[Jennifer] But, Romans 8:28 says, “And we know that for those who love God, “all things work together for good, “for those who are called according to His purpose.”
[Aaron] And what’s interesting is it says, “For good.” Not for my good, but for the ultimate good of what God’s doing.
[Jennifer] Whatever His purposes are, cause, you know, He’s got it all intertwined with other people and, you know, he’s got a purpose and a reason for all of it.
[Aaron] Yeah, and our current suffering could be for the sake of a lost soul. And I wouldn’t want to… I wouldn’t want to negate that ministry that God has in my life. We know people that go through much, much harder things than we’ve gone through. And they’ve praised God through every bit of it, and their heart has always been those that we come in contact with, because of this hardship, we pray that they come to know the Lord. And so that could be it, like the good like God’s good. And He has a purpose in what’s going on.
[Jennifer] Another one is James 1:12, it says, “Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial “for when he has stood the test he will receive “the crown of life which God has promised “to those who love Him.”
[Aaron] Yeah I love God, right? And I wanna remain steadfast in His Word. Under trial and in good times. You know, so that’s my heart. So we just wanna end with some more scripture, to encourage you all, times may be hard, times may be chaotic and crazy. We don’t know what tomorrow brings, we can’t control it.
[Jennifer] You guys may be facing hardship like currently right now, or you may face it in the future, but Christ says that we will face tribulation and every marriage is bound to. And you know what? Marriage itself is hard, walking with another human being is hard, and so our hope is just that this episode would remind you of God’s truth and help you feel more prepared to go through those hard things, knowing what to do.
[Aaron] Yeah, and for the believer, that’s what exactly is that word through. That’s what it is, you’re going through it. And Christ is going through it with you, like that song, There’s Another In The Fire, standing next to me. There’s another in the water holding back the sea. And that’s what we’re doing. So we wanna end on this bit of scripture in 1 Peter 4:12, it says, “Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial “when it comes upon you to test you. “As though something strange were happening to you. “But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings “that you may also rejoice and be glad “when his glory is revealed. “If you’re insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, “because the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. “But let none of you suffer as a murderer “or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. “Yet, if anyone suffers as a Christian, “let him not be ashamed, “but let him glorify God and that name. “For it is the time for judgment to begin “at the household of God. “And if it begins with us, “what will be the outcome for those “who do not obey the gospel? “And if the righteous is scarcely saved, “what will become of the ungodly and the sinner? “Therefore, let those who suffer according to God’s will “entrust their souls to a faithful Creator “while doing good.” So I just wanna encourage us with a Scripture is, if we’re gonna suffer in trial or persecution or tribulation, let it be for Christ’s sake. Not because we are fools, not because we are breaking the law and doing wicked things, let it be for Christ’s sake, and that alone and it says we should rejoice in that, because we’re participating in the suffering of Christ . And with the others around the world who are suffering for Christ’s sake, we get to rejoice with them. And the most powerful part of this, is let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good. So we can continue doing good while suffering because we have a faithful Creator. He is faithful. And man, I can trust that, I can trust him. I may not be able to trust my heart, I may not able to trust my own good works, but I can trust Him.
[Jennifer] Well, we just hope that this encourages you guys today. If you know someone that is going through hardship right now, especially in marriage, would you just share this episode with them, so that they can also be encouraged by it?
[Aaron] Yeah. And if you know someone that is going through something, not only, I mean, you could send them this episode like Jennifer said, but be praying for them. Reach out to them.
[Jennifer] send them scriptures even–
[Aaron] Let them know you’re available, yeah.
[Jennifer] Just a text, yeah.
[Aaron] Yes, send them scriptures. Sorry, I cut you off, but, yes, be available, draw them into the light with you, say, “Hey, I’m here, like, don’t do this alone.” Like, let me walk with you. And be bold in that way, for the sake of your brother and sister in Christ. If you know someone that doesn’t believe, reach out to them, and ask the Lord to give you an opportunity and the words to speak to present the gospel.
[Jennifer] To hope.
[Aaron] Yeah, hope.
[Jennifer] To present hope to them.
[Aaron] Yeah, cause there’s a lot of people that are without hope right now. And more so than ever.
[Jennifer] I mean, we started off this episode by sharing just all the headlines in the last couple months of just how hard life is and I don’t know if it’s gonna lighten up, I don’t know if it’s gonna get worse, I don’t know what’s to come, but…
[Aaron] The Lord does.
[Jennifer] The Lord knows every detail. He knows every detail of every hardship that we’re ever gonna face. And He asks us to walk faithfully through them.
[Aaron] So we love you all. And we just wanna remind you, abide in Christ, stand firm in His Word, because it’s the only thing solid in this world. It is solid, it’s everlasting, it’s forever, it’s living. And it contains the words of life, I think about Peter, Jesus turned to all of His disciples, and many of them left Him cause He said some hard things. And He turned to the 12, and He said, “Are you also gonna leave?” And Peter said, “Where am I gonna go?” You have the words of life, right? And that’s how I feel. I may not know what I’m doing, but I know I’m not leaving, because he has the words of life. And so dig in, dig into the Word of God. Don’t neglect it. Feed on it, it is our sustenance. It’s our life, it’s our water, it’s our food, it’s everything. So as usual, we end in prayer, and so would you pray with us?
[Jennifer] Dear Lord, going through hardship and trials is painful on so many levels. It’s complicated, and yet you know, every detail of every one of our situations and you know the outcome. We pray that your will is done. Even though we would rather not experience challenges in this life, we know we will. We pray we would be faithful as we go through them. We pray we would remain steadfast in your word and worship you. Help us to be strong and to be courageous. Help us to remind each other to look to you and to trust in you. May your purpose and may your will be done in these hardships. May these refine us and draw us closer to you, in Jesus name, Amen.
[Aaron] Amen. We love you all. And we pray that this blessed you and yeah, see you next week. Did you enjoy today’s show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you’re interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.