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Aaron Smith – MAG (02:33.181)
Hey everyone, this is Aaron Smith with the Marriage After God podcast and I’m sitting here with Arlene Pellicane and we’re about to have an awesome conversation. Welcome to the show, Arlene.
Arlene Pellicane (02:40.77)
So great to be with you and hello to Jennifer.
Aaron Smith – MAG (02:43.507)
Thank you. Yeah, she she’s doing awesome. We were just talking a second ago about our new baby, Emryn. I just realized I don’t know if I’ve even mentioned her on our podcast since we’ve had her. And so I just want to let everyone know, yeah, we had our sixth little girl, not six little girl, six little baby, but she’s a girl and her name’s Emryn and she’s about 12 weeks at the time of this recording. And gosh, she’s getting chunky and awesome and all the kids are fighting over her. It’s amazing.
Arlene Pellicane (03:11.873)
See, it’s a good thing that we were talking about her, because this is what your listeners need to know.
Aaron Smith – MAG (03:16.494)
I know, I
Aaron Smith – MAG (03:17.299)
just realized, I like, man, I don’t think I’ve told anyone.
Arlene Pellicane (03:19.924)
It’s because you’re walking
Arlene Pellicane (03:21.067)
in this fog of like, let me just get what I need to get done and then let me go to sleep. Let me help my wife.
Aaron Smith – MAG (03:25.191)
Yeah, yeah. Well,
Aaron Smith – MAG (03:26.985)
and also when Jennifer’s with me on the show, she remembers all these things. She’s like, let’s talk about this. I’m like, yeah, we need to mention that. And it’s me. So.
Arlene Pellicane (03:30.676)
Yes.
Arlene Pellicane (03:34.852)
I love
Arlene Pellicane (03:35.253)
this. We need to mention this sixth child. love this.
Aaron Smith – MAG (03:37.44)
Aaron Smith – MAG (03:40.299)
So
Aaron Smith – MAG (03:40.72)
Arlene, why don’t we start with who you are, a little bit of your background, how many kids you have, and introduce you to our audience.
Arlene Pellicane (03:47.923)
Yeah, my name is Arlene Pelican. My husband, James and I have been married for 25 years and I was the high school girl who was just like, Jesus, please bring a husband. Please bring a husband. You know, I just wanted that so much and it took a while, but it was totally worth the wait. And then it also took a while for us to have kids. We wanted to have children, had a little bit of trouble having children, didn’t think that would happen.
Arlene Pellicane (04:11.999)
So we found out that I had a fibroid in my uterus, needed to have surgery. So after that was done, then we had Ethan. So it was very exciting for us. So we have three children, one boy and two girls, two are in college now, and we just have one at home. She’s a sophomore. Our baby is Lucy. So it is a new phase of life. Lucy very much misses Ethan and Noelle, her siblings, as do we, but we’re also having this new normal of like, well,
Aaron Smith – MAG (04:25.683)
Wow.
Arlene Pellicane (04:39.67)
In my opinion, it’s like, well, at least we have one child left here still, which is fun for both of us. But we have always thought and understood these kids are going to grow up and leave our house. So we need to be sure that we know each other, like each other, enjoy each other and will not freak out when they all leave. So we’ve kind of had learned that lesson from other people who have told us, like, make sure you tend to your marriage while your kids are growing up.
Aaron Smith – MAG (04:43.121)
I know.
Arlene Pellicane (05:06.26)
so that there is a strong foundation. And we were fortunate enough when our kids were really little, we had neighbors who were very like God honoring and they had just these lovely two girls. And so we would just ask them like, what did you do to make your girls so amazing? And really a key principle they taught us was that the child enters your home, but they are not the center of your home and you don’t orbit around them. So that’s kind of been what we have tried to do.
Aaron Smith – MAG (05:07.465)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith – MAG (05:27.958)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (05:35.932)
And very much the backbone, I guess, behind making marriage easier is this whole idea of why this is a priority relationship. And that enhances, obviously, your parenting. It enhances the family life. It doesn’t detract from it. So I’ve been fortunate enough to write books and speak and do those kinds of things. My podcast is called The Happy Home, and I have several books out, including Screen Kids. I like to talk about technology as well.
Aaron Smith – MAG (05:46.283)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (06:00.115)
Yeah,
Aaron Smith – MAG (06:00.295)
you’ve been you’ve been doing this for a long time. feel like we’ve known about you almost as long as we’ve been doing this. When did you start writing? Because you have a lot. was just on Amazon. I couldn’t count how many books you have, but.
Arlene Pellicane (06:06.196)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My
Arlene Pellicane (06:10.372)
first book came out in 2010 and then Making Marriage Easier will be number 10. So I like this. They’re all like nice tens and then maybe we’ll call it quits. I’m not sure in terms of writing, but it’s book number 10.
Aaron Smith – MAG (06:12.61)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (06:15.618)
Wow.
Aaron Smith – MAG (06:22.133)
I think you hit on our first little tidbit of knowledge for today was that you guys reached out and you actually, you sought after counsel from someone who’s been in the business of marriage and family longer. Parenting, you saw children that you’re like, wow, they turned out really great. What did you do? And that’s something so important for each one of us to consider as we’re doing this, that we, since the beginning of time, people didn’t…
Arlene Pellicane (06:35.945)
Yes!
Arlene Pellicane (06:40.095)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (06:51.608)
you know, they weren’t married and raised their kids, you know, on an island. They did it in communities and they did it with other people that were like-minded. And I think we forget about that. We forget that we can ask someone that’s done it before, gone before us and say, hey, what did you do? It doesn’t mean that we have to do exactly the way they did it, but drawing on our elders is so important and something I think we’ve lost in this generation.
Arlene Pellicane (06:54.805)
Exactly.
Arlene Pellicane (07:07.145)
Yep.
Arlene Pellicane (07:13.235)
Yeah,
Arlene Pellicane (07:14.206)
my mentors, Pam and Bill Farrell are in the book, Making Marriage Easier, and neither of them came from homes where there was a healthy marriage modeled. So when they were in their 20s and had just gotten married, what they would do is they’d look for happy people in church, like people that were still holding hands, people that looked like generally happy to be together, and they would literally sit next to them.
Aaron Smith – MAG (07:35.17)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (07:37.267)
And then they’d introduce themselves, you know, here there are these young, starving 20 year olds to this, you know, older emptiness kind of couple. And they’d say, can we go to lunch? And then invariably the people would take them out for lunch, right? But they did this. This was their practice. Like over and over and over, they were like actively looking for people. And I think that’s so good. And really don’t be embarrassed to ask because most people would be feel very complimented. Like what you want to have coffee with me because you think I have something to tell you. Like most people.
Aaron Smith – MAG (08:03.427)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (08:06.6)
will really like that. Don’t be afraid to ask.
Aaron Smith – MAG (08:10.421)
And unfortunately, I feel like our generation, many of us didn’t have healthy families. I mean, my parents are still together. They loved me. They did their best. They’re still together. My wife’s parents divorced, but their, their, career marriage, they’ve been together essentially her whole life. But we, we’ve seen lots of broken stories, which is essentially the story of humanity, right? But it’s also why, it’s why Jennifer and I started Marriage After God.
Arlene Pellicane (08:16.073)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (08:19.143)
Yes.
Arlene Pellicane (08:27.433)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (08:34.088)
right.
Aaron Smith – MAG (08:38.52)
And I’m assuming it’s why you started your ministry is because there’s a need for us to recognize the power of what God instituted in marriage, why He created in the first place. There’s a purpose behind it being the first institution that He came up with and the power of our kids being able to see that. What did inspire you to go on this journey of strengthening marriages, talking about parenting? What was the catalyst for that for you?
Arlene Pellicane (08:40.884)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (08:48.786)
Yep.
Arlene Pellicane (09:07.132)
You know, it was very simple because it was I enjoyed speaking and I enjoyed like encouragement. So those are the things I like. I like talking to people and I like encouraging them. So it’s like, well, what can I encourage them about? You’re right. you start thinking, what should I talk about? And for me, like my greatest joy has been my family. Like I really enjoy being a wife. I really enjoy being a mom. And that is something that’s not as common as it used to be. Right. Like, like
Aaron Smith – MAG (09:33.199)
Sadly, yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (09:34.172)
before probably in our grandparents generation, the kinds of things I say like have dinner with your family, know, like these very simple things. Our grandparents would be like, yeah, that’s kind of what we do. So it really is just to help people realize, wait, there are just some simple things you can do to have good relationships because at the end of our life, none of us are going to say, right, like, wow, look, my social media feed is so robust or I made a ton of money and I have so much stuff like.
Aaron Smith – MAG (09:40.933)
You
Arlene Pellicane (10:03.186)
None
Arlene Pellicane (10:03.366)
of us are gonna say that. We’re gonna think like who was here to witness my life? Like who is still here with me? Like, so I just really like to me, those are areas where I really enjoy and I want other people to also. So that really was the way I thought, okay, let’s write about marriage. Let’s write about parenting.
Aaron Smith – MAG (10:24.506)
Almost like they’re the most important things in this life outside of our salvation, right? Well, it’s the foundation of our society that it’s literally being attacked and torn down and by piece by piece. You mentioned something about just, you know, on our deathbed or when we stand before the Lord, we’re not going to look back and be like, look at my social media, look at how much money I made. It’s the most real reality that exists is recognizing that it’s only people that matter.
Arlene Pellicane (10:26.874)
Yeah, like in terms of people. Yes, yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (10:32.401)
Yeah. Yes.
Aaron Smith – MAG (10:53.051)
It’s only our relationships and how we walk with people. It’s I believe it’s like the majority of the Bible focuses on our relationship with one another. And then it starts with our relationship with God, of course, and then his desire is how we deal interpersonally between each other, not defrauding, not cheating, not lying. Jesus says the greatest commandment is loving the Lord God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and loving your neighbors yourself.
Aaron Smith – MAG (11:19.769)
And he says on these two hang all the law and the prophets. anyone who loves their neighbor fulfills the law. So when you love your spouse well, when you love your children and your goal is to walk with them, you are doing the greatest thing you ever could do.
Arlene Pellicane (11:36.187)
You know, and you think,
Arlene Pellicane (11:36.967)
I think of that and you think, OK, if you only see your neighbor once in a while, maybe you just have to do that once a month, like be really nice. Or maybe you’re super neighborly and every other day you talk for five minutes. OK, great. But think of it, your spouse, you are with them a lot. So if you can love that neighbor, right, that’s like super fulfilling the law. So it is it’s like this beautiful place to learn how to love is is in the marriage. I interviewed Dr. David Jeremiah. I put him in the book.
Aaron Smith – MAG (11:46.781)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (11:54.087)
You’re, yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (12:04.849)
And he and his wife, Donna, have been married more than 60 years. And he just talks about how every memory he has, has her in it, you know, so he’ll think like, it’s this song and he’ll look at her or look, it’s that place we’ve been to and he’ll look at her. And he’s like, there’s no one else on the planet who knows all these things, who has all these common experiences with me, except her. And he really talks about how you really do become one flesh. And so this.
Aaron Smith – MAG (12:08.266)
man.
Aaron Smith – MAG (12:16.873)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (12:32.166)
this
Arlene Pellicane (12:32.386)
really special thing called marriage is, mean, what a gift that you get to have this person who knows you so well and who’s done all these things.
Aaron Smith – MAG (12:40.979)
Yeah, I’m beginning to feel the same way. Not beginning. I’m beginning to realize I’ve always felt the same way as I could go and spend time with friends and go do something. And it’s fun for a short moment, but I’m always wanting my wife there. Like, man, I wish Jennifer would have experienced this. And so I realize all the things I want to do, I want her to be a part of it and everything that she’s doing. I want to be a part of it. And it’s a good thing to recognize. So you’re on your 10th book.
Arlene Pellicane (12:47.472)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (13:07.417)
Yes.
Aaron Smith – MAG (13:10.156)
Okay, making marriage easier, which I love the title because there’s a lot of sentiment nowadays that marriage is hard, marriage is unnecessary, marriage is tedious, marriage is a taking a step back. You even mention this in your book. You talk about this worldly negative sentiment towards marriage. And there’s also an equally, you know, ugly negative sentiment towards children.
Arlene Pellicane (13:26.693)
Right. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (13:39.603)
But
Aaron Smith – MAG (13:40.064)
what makes making marriage easier, your 10th book now, stand out among your other works?
Arlene Pellicane (13:46.158)
It is my funniest book. So for sure, because it’s all these marriage stories that are utterly ridiculous. So it is super easy to read and it is for sure my funniest book. And I hope in the laughing of it that there’s a lot of weight to, right? Because it is, I think through laughter, it helps us to see things when we’re very serious or very sad or very guarded. It’s hard to have that illumination. But when we’ve kind of laughed,
Aaron Smith – MAG (13:49.168)
that’s good.
Aaron Smith – MAG (14:02.698)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (14:15.15)
and been able to laugh at ourselves. I think that’s a huge thing of making marriage easier is if you can take whatever problem you’re having and just kind of realize there’s a funny side to that. Or when you’re in the heat of the moment, realize this is there’s like in two years, this will be really funny. Like when you have that perspective, it’s not funny right now, but in two years, it’s going to be funny. So so I think that makes it a different book. It’s also I really, really hope that it is the kind of book
Aaron Smith – MAG (14:32.646)
It’s not funny right now, but this is going to be funny.
Arlene Pellicane (14:44.667)
that will make different rhythms in the home that it’s like, wow, my attitude has shifted. I, of the, the book has four main decisions that you’ll make. And this isn’t, you know, it’s not feeling based, it’s decision based. Like I’m going to make these decisions that when you had the marriage vow.
Arlene Pellicane (15:05.293)
That vow wasn’t an acknowledgement of how you felt right then. Cause of course, right then you were like, my world revolves around you. I rise and fall at the sound of your name. You know what I mean? Like you’re there, but the vow is, a, is a future commitment that regardless of what happens, I will still love you. So I hope that people will pick this up and realize, I need, I’m thinking about this wrong.
Aaron Smith – MAG (15:12.866)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (15:30.393)
I’m thinking of this like, what do you do for me? I’m thinking of this transactionally because that’s how our relationships are now. Like transactionally, if they help you, great. If they’re difficult to be with, just cut them out of your life. You know, so that’s kind of what we’re used to. So instead to realize, wait a minute, I have some decisions here to make. And once I’ve made those decisions, then it’s like, wow, it makes everything easier. Instead of battling things, you’ve accepted them. know, so I think things like
Aaron Smith – MAG (15:35.212)
you
Aaron Smith – MAG (15:55.116)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (15:59.269)
that I’m hoping that it’ll have those clear points that will resonate with the reader.
Aaron Smith – MAG (16:06.826)
So as I was skimming through your book, there are quite a bit of stories in it and you talk about funny stories. I’m thinking one, but I’m not going to say what it is. What’s one funny story that you want to share from this book that think everyone will think is
Arlene Pellicane (16:15.128)
Okay.
Arlene Pellicane (16:18.756)
Ha!
Arlene Pellicane (16:21.445)
There are
Aaron Smith – MAG (16:21.491)
funny?
Arlene Pellicane (16:22.205)
so many. Okay, so two come to mind. I’m going to go with my wedding registry. So this is the idea that you come into the marriage with different expectations and one of you thinks you think you’re right. Like you think the other person and this could be big things about marriage or this could just be like where we’re supposed to eat dinner tonight. Like you think you are right. And it really helps to realize, wait a minute, the other person, they think they are equally right. So.
Aaron Smith – MAG (16:37.678)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (16:50.425)
our wedding registry. My husband James was living in Dallas. I was living in Virginia Beach. We were separated because of work. So I told him, I’ll do one department store. You do the other. Why don’t you go to Target, get the little scanner gun and you just go crazy, get all the things you want in our house. Great. I go to Target, I print out the registry and I’m just like, wait, wait, there’s a tent.
Arlene Pellicane (17:14.628)
and like a little stove and little camping equipment. Okay, I’m not a camper. like my camping is like, we looked at the lake and we stayed at the lodge. You know, that is my camping. My husband is totally like backpack stars, the whole thing. So I’m like, well, that’s annoying. There’s like camping equipment on this thing. That’s ridiculous. I keep reading KY Jelly. I’m like, wait a minute. You’ve got, don’t even know if I can say that on your podcast. I’m just not sure. It was on my wedding registry. Advil, Tylenol, Tums.
Aaron Smith – MAG (17:23.332)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (17:43.952)
hornets nest wasp killers. I was like, what? I’m like sweating. I’m like, what? Like I’m just freaking out. So we have no cell phones then of course. So I go home and I think to myself, it is a practical joke. He is sending his groomsmen to Target and this is gonna be so funny and they’re all gonna buy it they’re gonna think it’s so funny. I get it. So I call them and I’m like, sweetie. I also wanna note that when you’re dating,
Arlene Pellicane (18:10.244)
Like
Arlene Pellicane (18:10.404)
we never called each other by our names, right? It was always like, sweetie, honey, schmooobie, like always. So one way you can make your marriage easier is just go back to the hun or whatever it is used to call it once in a while, like, work that in. Sweetie, that’s so funny what you did to the registry. You must be playing a practical joke. And there’s total silence on the other end. And he’s like, what? And I’m like, the stuff on the registry. And now he is literally offended. He goes, you told me.
Aaron Smith – MAG (18:14.68)
Yeah, the pet names.
Arlene Pellicane (18:40.324)
to put the stuff I want on the registry. And that’s the stuff we need. I don’t need like a glass candy dish. I don’t need a candle. I don’t need plates. We have plates. Like that’s what we need. So now I’m like dumbfounded. Like, wait a minute, I’m the bad guy because I don’t want Tylenol on my list. So we were going through marital counseling and I was like, okay, they say that men like word pictures, men like word pictures. So I’m like, okay, okay.
Arlene Pellicane (19:09.003)
Imagine you’re in line, you’re going to see the queen, you have a beautifully wrapped present and you hand it to the queen and she opens it and it’s Windex. Like sweetheart, people don’t do that. It’s not appropriate. So it barely got through, but we finally decided we would take all the things that had to do with medicine and other things. We took those things off the list. We kept the camping equipment and that’s it. But that
Arlene Pellicane (19:38.231)
Like little glimpse is so us, like, and he’s thinking what’s, and I’m sure every man listening to this is like, yes, why don’t they bias things we actually need and can use? Right? So you’re with, right? Right? So this is marriage that, and so making marriage easier is realizing, you know what? We have two different viewpoints. Why fight it? Why fight it? And in fact,
Aaron Smith – MAG (19:51.342)
I could totally relate to this.
Arlene Pellicane (20:04.769)
See that from the other, like, I get that. Like to be able to say to him, you know what, now that we’ve been married 25 years, maybe the Tylenol wouldn’t have been so bad. We could have used it. Somebody would have really gotten a kick out of buying it for us. don’t know. Like you do. So basically cross the street and see it from the other person’s angle and realize you have your way of seeing it, but they also have their way of seeing it. Both are good and fine and equal.
Aaron Smith – MAG (20:12.851)
You
Arlene Pellicane (20:30.446)
and
Arlene Pellicane (20:31.049)
really seek to try to understand the other person and have a little fun in doing so.
Aaron Smith – MAG (20:35.381)
Speaking of wedding registries when Jennifer and I were working on ours and I was new to all this whole idea of getting ready to be married of course and I’m like okay well why don’t we’re like we were planning on going to be missionaries for a little bit right after we got married and I’m thinking like I don’t want a bunch of stuff that we’re gonna have to store somewhere I don’t want like we I don’t know we’re gonna be living out I know we’re gonna be having it I was like why can’t we just ask for money she’s like that’s not appropriate she said you can’t just ask for money on the registry
Arlene Pellicane (20:43.768)
Right?
Arlene Pellicane (21:01.998)
Right.
Arlene Pellicane (21:04.468)
Just all of it money.
Aaron Smith – MAG (21:05.148)
But that’s what we need. We literally
Aaron Smith – MAG (21:07.29)
need money to go to Africa. We need money for a car. We need money for, I got it all these plane tickets. I’m thinking very practically and she’s like, you can’t do that.
Arlene Pellicane (21:11.844)
goodness, it’s so true.
Arlene Pellicane (21:15.512)
Yes, and then you got a blender. Yeah, you got a blender
Arlene Pellicane (21:18.974)
and then you’re like, what do we do with the blender? Right?
Aaron Smith – MAG (21:22.58)
Yeah, but you know what’s funny now? Those are all the things I want. I’m like, we need a blender. We need some foot warmers. I would love a comforter, a really nice heavy comforter for our bed.
Arlene Pellicane (21:26.262)
Yeah. Totally.
Arlene Pellicane (21:33.557)
every comforter. Maybe
Arlene Pellicane (21:36.514)
you could have like some kind of anniversary where people give you gifts again.
Aaron Smith – MAG (21:41.205)
That’s a great idea. should start up
Aaron Smith – MAG (21:43.185)
a tread. It’s like, hey, this is the registry for our 20th anniversary. And they’re like, what? Yep. There’s a few things we need.
Arlene Pellicane (21:46.413)
That’s right. Yeah. I love this. People
Arlene Pellicane (21:52.539)
are crazy enough that they would honor that you had a crazy idea and who knows you might get that comforter.
Aaron Smith – MAG (21:56.874)
They would
Aaron Smith – MAG (21:57.844)
do it. We got a few things, big ticket items we’re looking for. I know.
Arlene Pellicane (22:02.721)
I feel like your listeners, your listeners might chip in for this because they’re like, yeah, we weren’t
Arlene Pellicane (22:06.243)
in for the wedding. We’ll help you. We’ll help you.
Aaron Smith – MAG (22:09.333)
This is actually, I think we should run with this because there’s some big things like mattresses. They’re the kind of thing that we never want to have to buy again because they’re so expensive. But man, I’m like, every night you’re like, I don’t like my mattress. We need a new mattress. It’s a big thing. man. So you talked about four core decisions. And I love that you say decisions because this isn’t an emotional thing, but often in life,
Arlene Pellicane (22:17.655)
Yeah, totally.
Arlene Pellicane (22:22.291)
Yeah, that’s a big thing.
Aaron Smith – MAG (22:38.848)
Men
Aaron Smith – MAG (22:39.068)
are definitely not as emotional as women are, but we still tend to gauge and respond and react emotionally. We make decisions that are not necessarily logical or rational, even though we might think we are. But the fact that it’s a decision is exactly how God calls us to operate as believers. We’re not just operating in the flesh, meaning like what I feel right now, how my body is responding and reacting and my brain’s chemicals are triggering.
Arlene Pellicane (23:04.034)
Yep.
Aaron Smith – MAG (23:09.131)
He wants us to think through things and have that’s the idea of sober mindedness. So what are these four decisions that we can make that will make it easier to have an easier marriage?
Arlene Pellicane (23:22.113)
Yes. Decision one is play by the rules. And what that means is there are things that you just agree beforehand, like these are things we do and these are things we don’t do, you know, and there’s going to be different rules that you do and this is not to be legalistic. So I talk about the Pharisees in the book. We’re not talking about like 500 plus laws. We’re talking about principles like we eat every day together.
Aaron Smith – MAG (23:41.953)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (23:44.865)
That’s as simple as I’m talking about. It’s not like you signed a contract, like I will not put food in my mouth unless you’re, no, sitting next to me. It’s just, that’s the general rule that if we’re both in town together and there’s not a special kids event that we have to be at, we will eat together every day. And it’s just, you just kind of go for it. So play by the rules that there are certain rules that your family, your couple-ness live by, and it’s not based on feelings. You, you go for them. So that’s decision one. Decision two is give thanks.
Aaron Smith – MAG (23:53.643)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (24:02.285)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (24:14.473)
every day and this is so scriptural that throughout scripture we are told give thanks give thanks because what does it ultimately do it says god we recognize that you’ve given this to us and today we want to say thank you you know the children of israel their big thing wasn’t it wasn’t adultery it wasn’t the you know whatever idolatry even like bowing before an idol it was they grumbled and they said this way of doing things is not good enough for us i mean you’ve given us a fire
Aaron Smith – MAG (24:23.286)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (24:31.512)
Grumbling.
Arlene Pellicane (24:43.082)
by night, you lead us by a cloud by day. Like they were experiencing the miraculous every day, magic food, mana, magic quail. But it was like, no, we’re sick of this kind of magic. We would like to see some different kind of magic. And doesn’t that sound like married people that were like, yeah, we got the same marriage, got the same things. We’re sick of that. Can’t you do something new? And so we’ve really got to, if we can make that decision, like, wait, I’m going to be thankful. I am going to be thankful.
Arlene Pellicane (25:11.542)
for my husband, I’m gonna be thankful for that coffee cup that’s left there that I have to pick up every day. I’m gonna be thankful that I have to run across town to have lunch with you because I have the ability, you know, et cetera. So give thanks. Such a huge, that shifts everything. The third decision is to serve one another, serve one another. Again, biblically, serve one another.
Aaron Smith – MAG (25:18.061)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (25:34.123)
And it is that idea, if you go through your marriage, like, what have you done for me? Like, if you go through your day today, like, what has Jennifer done for me today? By the end of the day, you’re like, well, not much. You write it and then you’re kind of mad. But if you think instead, like, well, what can I do for Jennifer today? Then all of a sudden you’re like, I could bring her a glass of water right now, or I could tell her she looks pretty. And that’s like super simple.
Arlene Pellicane (26:00.502)
And then at the end of the day, you feel good about yourself. You’re like, I served my wife today. I mean, how different. that whole, just that shift of I’m not going to ask like, what have you done for me lately? Cause that’s a losing question. Instead, I’m going to say, what can I do for you today? Because I have control over that. And that actually makes me feel really good because I’ve, I’ve done something kind for my spouse.
Aaron Smith – MAG (26:12.323)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (26:27.02)
And even if you’re listening and you’re like, wait a minute, I do that all the time. Like I’m always doing something for my spouse and they never do something for me. So now you’re telling me to even be more of a doormat or more of a servant, right? This is maybe what you’re thinking, but you know what? Your reward is coming. Like when we are in heaven, we were not going to be judged. Like, did you get in from? No, your salvation is because of the grace of Jesus Christ.
Aaron Smith – MAG (26:54.363)
Yep.
Arlene Pellicane (26:54.559)
but
Arlene Pellicane (26:54.869)
your works will be judged. Like, hey, what’d you do down there when you were there? And more importantly, like how’d you treat the people? I think that’s, that’s to be part of it. Like what’d you do eternally? And so even if you feel like your spouse is not responsive to your service now, you, you, or on this particular day, let’s say you try to do it and they didn’t notice. And so you’re like, that didn’t work. God notices and, and over time your spouse is going to notice too. that third decision.
Aaron Smith – MAG (27:03.759)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (27:21.652)
serve your spouse, and then the fourth decision is take fun seriously. So a times we think all that fun, we don’t have time for that, right? But you, you actually have to have a little fun or else the whole thing is a big drag. So fun got you into the relationship, right? That’s you liked the, your spouse because they were fun. So try to realize, wait a minute, this is a priority. Like we need to take a vacation.
Aaron Smith – MAG (27:41.638)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (27:47.731)
We
Arlene Pellicane (27:48.031)
need to have fun. We need to go out to dinner once in a while. We need to be silly and goofy like we used to be. Like whatever your goofy was before you had kids and a mortgage and a job and so serious. Like once in a while, loop back to that. I’m not saying every day has to be like a comedian thing. No, but you just have to like prioritize it. Like if you’re actually having fun together, realize this is not frivolous. Like you’re actually doing something really good to make your marriage easier.
Aaron Smith – MAG (28:14.766)
I love that. I want to make a note on serving each other. It’s an amazing thing in our flesh how we’re often so favorable in how we view our serving. So like if I serve, like, man, I did so much, right? I did so much today. I served you so well. I brought you breakfast.
Arlene Pellicane (28:28.234)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (28:31.252)
So much right. Right. Right.
Aaron Smith – MAG (28:37.136)
I’ve complimented you, but when it comes
Aaron Smith – MAG (28:39.198)
to how we evaluate our spouse and their serving of us, it’s very unfavorable. You didn’t do enough. And we’re often and I think that’s where the rule before that or the decision before that about Thanksgiving changes that. Because if you’re thankful for what someone does for you, no matter how little it is, it becomes a lot. You’re like, well, I’m so thankful that you did that for me.
Arlene Pellicane (28:45.48)
Right.
Aaron Smith – MAG (29:04.874)
that you said that to me, that you reminded me of that, that you were there for me in that moment. It turns that unfavorable perspective of others on its head. And then the humility involved in doing that turns yourself like, I didn’t do enough. I want to do more. Because going back to that, how our flesh desires, it’s going to always skew in our direction. we need to do… And going back to your last…
Arlene Pellicane (29:29.867)
Totally. Totally.
Aaron Smith – MAG (29:34.719)
decision. Say it again, what was the last decision that you got to make? Taking fun seriously. That’s not what I wanted to talk about actually. There was something you said. You said something about when we’re in heaven that God keeps good track, he keeps good accounting, right? And while we’re here with our spouse and with others,
Arlene Pellicane (29:39.444)
Take fun seriously. So yes.
Arlene Pellicane (29:45.784)
Yeah, maybe it was there was something else in there.
Arlene Pellicane (29:52.956)
Yes, yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (29:55.88)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (30:01.573)
It’s not that he’s just looking at our works. It’s what are we doing with our salvation? What are we doing with the gift of grace that God’s given us? And that’s what should be pouring out of us. The reason I want to serve my wife or my children or my neighbor or anyone is because of what Christ did for me. Out of obedience to Christ.
Arlene Pellicane (30:17.342)
Yeah, like out of obedience to Christ, like, Lord, I want to follow
Arlene Pellicane (30:22.396)
you. I want to become more like you. And marriage really is, if we can view our marriage as like, wow, that’s the main stage where God’s going to make us more like Him, like make us more humble, make us more kind, make us, you know, take that 1 Corinthians 13 and instead of love, put your name in that as, you know, am I less boastful? Am I less envious? And all those things, they get worked out in a marriage in a big way.
Aaron Smith – MAG (30:46.43)
Yeah,
Aaron Smith – MAG (30:46.86)
and every day often getting worked out every single day. Out of those four decisions, what was what would you believe is the hardest one that you had to embrace or even continue have to embrace? Because I would imagine this is not a one and done thing. This is a lifetime of practice.
Arlene Pellicane (30:50.033)
Yeah, yes.
Arlene Pellicane (31:03.26)
Yeah. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (31:06.071)
I think it is the serve your spouse, you know, like I think we’ve done pretty well over the years. The fun piece, maybe sometimes because like, for instance, my husband loves to ski. So that to him is so fun. So I took the class and I did okay. And for one day I enjoyed skiing on the bunny slopes. It was me and all the kids, right? All learning.
Arlene Pellicane (31:27.358)
But by the second day, basically I was sent on an intermediate slope that I just thought would about killing me. It’s like this was the wrong lift and I should not have been on it. And from that day moving forward, I have really not liked skiing. So I’ve tried, we’ve done the things. And after many years, we have just realized this is not my jam. You and the kids go do your black diamonds. I will be in the most beautiful picturesque place sitting, reading a book. And this is just great for everyone. So I think
Arlene Pellicane (31:56.167)
That actually has been a hard one for me, take fun seriously, because there are, and I think that’s true for a lot of couples, that the fun thing that you do, your spouse doesn’t do it with you, like they don’t like it. So I think if you would have asked me this a year or two ago, I would have said the take fun seriously. But we’ve kind of made peace with the skiing thing, and we are trying to find more things we do together for fun. Right now it’s ballroom dancing, which is pretty funny. So we are taking lessons.
Arlene Pellicane (32:24.905)
And we both like it and we both do it and we figure, you know what, as we get older, we see a lot of 70 year olds, 80 year olds out there dancing. So it’s something we can keep doing. So that’s like a, been really like a sweet thing for us. So that area is doing a little bit better. So I would say the serving because it is when you know, I’m doing this not because I want to do it, but I’m doing this because I know it would bless you. So I’ll go ahead and do it. That’s, you know, that, that, that’s hard for all of us.
Aaron Smith – MAG (32:47.714)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith – MAG (32:55.551)
Yeah, fun, the having fun, it’s kind of funny because I feel like many people think I’m a fun person, I think that’s a hard one for me. Serving is always hard, of course. That’s something that’s constantly being challenged with me. But I notice that the having fun, taking it seriously, also with my children, the struggle with they come and like it’s so natural for them and they’ll want to be goofy with me or they they try and tickle me out of nowhere or scare me or.
Arlene Pellicane (33:05.436)
Yeah. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (33:17.138)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (33:24.919)
jump on me and then I snap. I have a little, I’m like, what are you doing? And they’re looking at me these white eyes, they were just trying to play him and I catch myself, like, why am I being a grouch right now? They’re just trying to have fun with me. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (33:33.83)
Like we’re trying to have fun.
Arlene Pellicane (33:40.23)
It’s like the grouchy pop of, I love this.
Arlene Pellicane (33:42.73)
They’re expecting you to tickle back and instead you’re like, what are you doing?
Aaron Smith – MAG (33:47.052)
Yeah, and I almost immediately get convicted and God’s like, they’re going to grow up and they’re going to stop wanting to play with you. saw, it was like an animation a long time ago about, you know, a dad on his phone and, you know, are busy doing something. The kid’s like, play with me, play with me. He’s like, not right now, not right now, not right now. And then they get older and then all of sudden the dad’s like, hey, you want to go do something? And the son’s like, not right now. And I was like, and that literally, that cartoon comes to my mind, you know, when my daughter runs up and she’s like, dance with me, dance with me. I’m like, I can’t right now, I can’t right now. And then I’m like,
Arlene Pellicane (34:00.072)
Yeah, Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (34:05.874)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (34:10.93)
Totally.
Arlene Pellicane (34:17.224)
Yes. Yes. Yes. It’s so true. Yes. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (34:17.412)
Like, okay. All right. Yeah,
Aaron Smith – MAG (34:22.888)
having fun. That’s a big deal.
Arlene Pellicane (34:24.902)
Yeah, and you know what’s funny? So people you would think like, well, that’s not fun because it didn’t happen naturally. But you actually have to work at it. Like, that’s OK to be like, wait a minute, I need to switch and I need to do this and I just need to tickle you even though I don’t. You know what I mean? Like you’re just telling yourself like, no, I want to participate because just like you’re saying, I don’t want to miss this. And then if you if you always reject that bid for fun, then people will stop asking you to have fun. Right. And then there are
Aaron Smith – MAG (34:40.174)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (34:53.593)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (34:54.211)
They’re having fun without you and you don’t want that either. So I think it is important to reciprocate that and say, yes, I will have fun.
Aaron Smith – MAG (35:02.613)
And just as much important with my wife, making sure that I’m not pushing her away when she’s trying to be silly with me or lighthearted. That’s another problem is like, we try and be lighthearted at some points, but then we get offended. Like, why did you say that? I’m like, I was playing, I swear. Being careful. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (35:05.445)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (35:09.061)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (35:16.456)
Right, right. Needs a lot of explanations, a lot of explanations along
Arlene Pellicane (35:23.441)
the way. That was one of the things that I would put in the book of, you know, don’t make the big things. Wait, I’m sorry. Don’t make the small things big and don’t make the big thing small. Right. So when there is a small thing, just, I didn’t mean it that way and just let it go. But
Aaron Smith – MAG (35:40.005)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (35:40.184)
when there really is a big thing.
Arlene Pellicane (35:42.075)
but you think, I’m just gonna ignore it because I don’t feel like talking about it. That’s when you actually do have to talk about.
Aaron Smith – MAG (35:47.046)
Yeah, in the book you call that keeping dragons small, right? So why don’t you talk about that for a second?
Arlene Pellicane (35:50.727)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah,
Arlene Pellicane (35:53.847)
that is not my comment. It was something I listened to with Dr. Jordan Peterson and he was talking about this, this book and in the book there’s, there’s a little dragon and the little boy and in this book, the dragon is real. And the boy’s like, look, mom, it’s a dragon. It’s a little cat. And the mom’s like, there’s no such thing as dragons. And basically the dragon keeps growing and growing and growing until it uproots the whole foundation of the house. And she still does not admit there’s a dragon.
Arlene Pellicane (36:19.899)
But once it’s admitted, yeah, there’s a dragon, then it shrinks down to the size of a cat. And it is this idea of if we say like, we don’t have a problem, we don’t have a problem, like we don’t have a money problem, we don’t have a sex problem, we don’t have a communication problem, you know, whatever, that problem grows and grows and grows. But once we say, you know what, our spending is out of control and we better get ourselves to a financial like…
Aaron Smith – MAG (36:25.158)
Mm.
Aaron Smith – MAG (36:37.958)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (36:46.51)
you know, literacy thing, we better do something. Then all of sudden it starts shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. So, you know, I quote the Mr. Rogers that whatever is mentionable is manageable. Like we need to be able to mention things because when we feel like we can’t say or talk about it, that’s how things grow. And use tact and wisdom. You know, don’t talk about these things when you’re hungry and the kids are running around. That’s not the time to be like, hey, there’s a dragon in the house.
Aaron Smith – MAG (37:01.042)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (37:14.81)
You know, but that’s what a like, I need to talk to you about something. Let’s set aside some time tomorrow at such and such a time to talk about it. And then they know like, okay, this is serious. I better show up for this. And I’d suggest too, like if it’s something serious and kind of sad, like that’s not a date night comment, because we want to remember, keep the date night fun. That’s just like a, we need to meet comment.
Aaron Smith – MAG (37:15.1)
Yep.
Aaron Smith – MAG (37:35.72)
That’s a great analogy for sin even. You know, when we keep things in the darkness, they can grow and fester and become more dark. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (37:40.952)
Yes. Yeah. Yes.
Arlene Pellicane (37:48.046)
and uproot everything around you
Arlene Pellicane (37:50.012)
just because you won’t say it.
Aaron Smith – MAG (37:52.182)
And as the Bible tells us that, you know, whatever we drag into light becomes light. so dragging those things in light, making not just in in sin, like, you know, I have this issue that needs to be confessed and repented of, which it can’t be healed. can’t be changed or transformed when it’s not confessed, when it’s just existing in the background and hiding. But the same goes for like every aspect of our marriage. Like if there’s just areas that we’re not going to talk about.
Arlene Pellicane (38:02.627)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (38:20.777)
then that’s probably an area that’s falling apart. That’s probably an area that’s got a big issue and the dragon grows. We got to keep those dragons small and we got to make sure that they’re there. Do you want to share the story that you shared in the book?
Arlene Pellicane (38:34.853)
I would love to. I was actually
Arlene Pellicane (38:36.733)
thinking about it. So when James and I were dating, he was looking at me and he looked like he wanted to ask me a question, but he was all like nervous. I was like, gee, I hope this isn’t the proposal. This is awful, right? This is bad. But he’s like, there’s been something I want to ask you, but I don’t know how to do it. I’m like, you know, how you’re dating and you’re so in love. honey, you can tell me anything. And he said, well, you have these hairs on your upper lip.
Aaron Smith – MAG (38:48.955)
no.
Aaron Smith – MAG (39:00.393)
Okay.
Arlene Pellicane (39:04.602)
Have
Arlene Pellicane (39:04.762)
you ever thought of electrolysis? And I was not expecting that. And I was like, electrolysis? gee, no, I really haven’t thought of that. And I was just like, what in the world just happened? It was super awkward. I looked at my watch and I was like, well, you know what? I got to go. I got to do some homework. We were in grad school and we dating. I like, I got to go. I got to go. So I left.
Aaron Smith – MAG (39:17.967)
Man.
Arlene Pellicane (39:27.918)
So I went to the bathroom and I looked in the mirror and these like the little peach fuzzy hairs, know, little hairs that I’ve seen like all my life. All of a sudden I was like, my word, they’re enormous. They’re enormous. They’re huge. And so I looked through the phone book because there’s no phones in it. So I looked at the yellow pages. E, E, E, electrician, electrician, electro, electrolysis.
Arlene Pellicane (39:53.113)
So I find this and it’s like this laser company, right? And I don’t even know, I’m not a girly girl. I never get my nails done. I don’t go to the spa, so I barely know what this is. So I’m looking it up and so I’m like, okay, I’ll do it. So I book a session, it’s like 50 bucks or something for the first session and they zap, right? Your hair and it falls out. Well, this happens and James cannot believe it because A, like we didn’t fight about it. I was just like, my word, okay, I have to go. And then I actually did it.
Arlene Pellicane (40:22.521)
And then B, he was like, my word, she listened to me and she actually did it so late. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (40:27.403)
He
Aaron Smith – MAG (40:28.856)
must have thought you were done with him. She’s gone. I should not have said anything.
Arlene Pellicane (40:31.405)
Yeah, she’s never coming back. She’s out of there. She’s
Arlene Pellicane (40:39.848)
out of there. And so he’ll tell you told me later and this is what will tell audiences when I tell the story, people are like, or they all hate him, you know, instantly like, how could your husband tell you that? That’s so rude. And he’ll say, I was really thinking of it and it was really an issue for me. Like I kept looking at them thinking like, you know, you could
Arlene Pellicane (40:59.397)
those taken off. So he kept thinking about it. And he’s like, if I cannot bring that up, like if I’m not allowed to bring that up, then if we get married, like how are we going to talk about like, where are we going to live? What kind of job should I take? You know, these really huge decisions in your life that you’re going to make. He’s like, if I can’t talk about hair, like can I not talk about those things? So it was kind of a test.
Aaron Smith – MAG (41:17.569)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (41:24.47)
And so thankfully after it all happened and I did come back and my lip looked better than he was like, okay, this girl can work with me. And honestly, like that’s also how James is to me. Like if he certainly has opinions and he’s not afraid to say them as we have kind of shared in our little podcast today. But if I say to him, honey, this was really offensive to me. Like don’t you gotta, he’ll be like, that’s a good point.
Arlene Pellicane (41:52.42)
I will not do that next time. So he is very open. He always has been from the very start. So very opinionated, but very open. So like in our marriages, let’s try to be like that. Like, I didn’t realize I’m doing that. Thanks for telling me. Cause our natural reaction is.
Aaron Smith – MAG (41:52.589)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (42:11.176)
Don’t
Arlene Pellicane (42:11.547)
you mess with me, right? Like, don’t mess with how I am. Leave me alone. But the whole point of marriage is like, hey, we’re going to try to improve one another, but in a loving way.
Aaron Smith – MAG (42:13.815)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (42:23.418)
Well, and it’s a hard thing. like, how do you tell someone they should be able to ask these questions and then encourage someone to be like, hey, you should be able to hear these questions and hear these responses. But when you break down down to its core, you know, the Bible calls us one flesh and it even goes further than that. It says your wife’s body is not her own, but yours and your body is not your own, but hers. And there’s there’s a reality.
Arlene Pellicane (42:30.571)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (42:33.589)
Yes. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (42:44.865)
Yeah. Right.
Aaron Smith – MAG (42:50.595)
that I think we need to recognize as husbands and wives that lends right to what you’re talking about, this ability to look at the dragons, to recognize things in our life. It’s not just hair. It’s not just where we’re going to live. It’s everything. If we think to ourselves, there’s certain things that my spouse is not allowed to address in me.
Arlene Pellicane (42:54.467)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (42:58.039)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (43:11.159)
You are not allowed to bring this up because you’re going to offend me. You’re going to hurt me. If we’re never allowed to offend each other again, not for the sake of offense. Like I’m not doing cause I’m mad at you and I’m going to, or I know it needs to come from a place of I love you. Here’s something that’s been on my heart. Here’s something that I can’t get past and maybe I’m wrong. Let’s talk about it. But here’s where I’m, what I’m looking at. Like you, you mentioned in your book and you mentioned a bunch of areas. Can we talk about sex? Can we talk about
Arlene Pellicane (43:17.771)
Yes.
Arlene Pellicane (43:20.247)
You were not doing it to hurt you. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (43:32.055)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (43:40.978)
porn? Can we talk about, you know, the names of our children or, you know, how we’re going to deal with our in-laws? Can we talk about our weight? Can we talk about our eating habits? Can we talk about if those things, if there’s things that are like this category, you’re not allowed to touch, then we should ask ourselves why we just ask ourselves, why is that something that I’m protecting from my spouse who’s supposed to be one with me? And they’re not allowed to have access to that. Why am I doing that? And
Arlene Pellicane (43:45.485)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (44:10.417)
It’s a hard thing. It’s a hard thing for us to do because it requires us to be humble and to hear things that we probably don’t want to hear. But would you say that? Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (44:16.47)
Yes. Yeah. That the humility thing is so huge. you know, and,
Arlene Pellicane (44:21.992)
that that humility thing is a good thing. And that if you have humbled yourself and brought yourself low, then whatever is said, you’re kind of ready to receive it because you’re real low, right? You’re not from this real proud position of like, don’t touch this, don’t touch this, you know? So it, and it’s good for us because we are to walk humbly with God, right? Micah 6, 8, like this is how we do this to walk humbly with God.
Arlene Pellicane (44:44.682)
And one way we do that is to walk humbly with our spouse.
Aaron Smith – MAG (44:48.219)
men. That’s really good. So something I want to touch on before we end our conversation is you bring up children in the book. You actually mentioned at the beginning of our episode not making them the center of our marriages. Why don’t we dig into that a little
Arlene Pellicane (45:03.361)
Yup.
Aaron Smith – MAG (45:03.533)
bit? Because it plays a big role in making marriage easier because if we do this wrong we make our marriage harder.
Arlene Pellicane (45:09.961)
Yes.
Arlene Pellicane (45:10.711)
Yeah. And I will tell you, so one of you, it might be the wife, it might be the husband. Usually it’s the wife that we as moms, we love to do things for our kids. We love to like cater. Exactly. Like we, we want to like pick them up. We want to make them things. We want to buy them things. We want to do all this stuff. So I think it is first of all, with the questions, asking ourselves if like, let’s say you’re trying to make a decision. Should we do soccer this year?
Aaron Smith – MAG (45:20.529)
You’re the nurturers. It’s natural.
Arlene Pellicane (45:37.634)
So then we think, okay, well, that would be good for our child. Let’s do it. But is it good for our marriage? Is it good for the whole family? So it just has to enter the conversation. It cannot just be like, we have to do this because it’s good for the kids. It also has to be also asked, how is this going to impact us as husband and wife?
Aaron Smith – MAG (45:44.594)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (45:57.654)
How is this gonna impact the energy levels of everyone in the house? How is this gonna impact the family dinner time? And so maybe we can sustain it for a season, but maybe all year long we can’t. So maybe we decide we’ll just do soccer with the school, but we’re not gonna do soccer and club, because then that’s gonna be all year long and we can’t handle that. So it is realizing, wait a minute, and here’s the thing, because we feel terrible, right? We wanna do everything for our kids.
Aaron Smith – MAG (45:58.291)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (46:26.102)
But if we bend over backwards and we take them to all these activities and we do all these things, but we don’t have a warm relationship with our spouse, right? So they’re seeing like, mom and dad, aren’t they are not that happy together. Like, I’m sure they can’t say it then probably as kids, but I’m sure when they’re older, they’d say, man, we wish you didn’t take us all over town. And we wish you guys would have just stayed happily married. Like we would have liked that a lot more.
Aaron Smith – MAG (46:50.063)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (46:54.784)
So really having that perspective of you are my priority relationship spouse of mine. And that’s hard because I’ll give that lip service. But if my husband, and I’m guilty of this, like if my husband asked me, hey, can you do me a favor? And it takes, you know, half an hour of my day or something. I’m kind of huffing and puffing about that. But if my kid needs me to go buy him an outfit for like their play, like I’ll go do that. I won’t. Yeah, two hours of my day and I’ll be like skipping through the aisles thinking that’s the greatest thing ever. Right.
Aaron Smith – MAG (47:18.207)
Yeah, two hours of your day.
Arlene Pellicane (47:23.455)
So we do have to have a shift of thinking like, okay, you’re important too, husband of mine, wife of mine.
Aaron Smith – MAG (47:32.021)
This plays out sometimes. mean, in my marriage, co-sleep. So we have our little baby and she’s with us and we’re already starting to transition to a crib. But early on with our older kids, when they were first born, this, it can easily, you don’t think about your spouse, if you’re letting your children in bed and they’re taking that space and you don’t have a timeframe and you don’t have a discussion about it you don’t work on
Arlene Pellicane (47:41.035)
Yep.
Aaron Smith – MAG (47:59.977)
you know, making that space yours again. That could cause rifts, can cause dissension and struggle. There’s another thing with our bedroom. I always tell my kids, I’m like, that bedroom’s special. It’s my place. Me and mommy, that’s our home, that’s our place. You don’t get just free access to it. You have to ask us, you have to knock. If you need to be in our room, you have to get permission and it’s not just free for all. There’s other rooms in house you have free access to.
Arlene Pellicane (48:01.877)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (48:14.173)
Yeah… Yes!
Arlene Pellicane (48:26.463)
Yeah, Totally.
Arlene Pellicane (48:29.506)
It’s a good boundary. Yeah, I like that.
Aaron Smith – MAG (48:29.853)
Not that one. That’s our special space. You know, and making
Aaron Smith – MAG (48:34.04)
our kids see that our relationship is special and above. Like, hey, this is something that we protect and you guys get to be a part of that. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (48:37.832)
Yeah. Yes.
Arlene Pellicane (48:43.484)
I love that because they grow
Arlene Pellicane (48:44.665)
up and then they’re like, mommy and daddy have a special place. Right. And it’s good. That’s a good framework to have.
Aaron Smith – MAG (48:47.893)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (48:51.671)
I love that. it’s something that if we don’t take care of it and make it a priority right away, this is something that has been a major issue in a lot of marriages over the last handful of decades of the whole, you know, children are leaving, emptiness syndrome, and then parents are getting divorced years after children leave. And the children are like, what happened? thought you guys were happy. I’m like, well, actually, we haven’t been happy our whole marriage.
Arlene Pellicane (49:03.838)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (49:09.439)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (49:20.939)
What? You know, faking it the whole time. And I wouldn’t say faking it. think they often they look back and they think like, we were just holding on for you guys. But in reality, it’s other things. But we don’t want to be that. We want to be parents that that we biblically prioritize the oneness with our spouse so that our children see a healthy model because we all didn’t see it. You know, the real way. Like there’s a lot of us that didn’t have that good.
Arlene Pellicane (49:24.692)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (49:31.54)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (49:41.29)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (49:47.829)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (49:50.519)
model.
Aaron Smith – MAG (49:50.899)
And we want our kids to have more than we have. We want them to have more opportunity, more understanding and not that they’re going to have all of a sudden perfect marriages, but probably a better likelihood of having a good marriage than, you know, maybe we would have had.
Arlene Pellicane (50:05.408)
Totally.
Arlene Pellicane (50:08.458)
This is, have a little something about this. We didn’t do this much, but you know how Valentine’s Day, Valentine’s Day is a lover’s holiday. It is for a man and a woman who are in love. But when you have children, Valentine’s Day shifts to the kids, right? So you give all the Valentine’s and all the candy to the kids, right? But Valentine’s is a lover’s holiday. So we had made jokes about this because, you know, and I’m like any other mom, I get the Valentine’s Day treats for all my kids and you send in the little things to the classroom and all that.
Aaron Smith – MAG (50:24.459)
That’s so true.
Arlene Pellicane (50:37.631)
to your spouse, you’re like, okay, let’s have dinner and stuff, you know, so, but it’s just like the spouse is almost equal, if not under the kids experience. So one year we did do it where the kids, they were kind of like upper elementary age, where they served us dinner on Valentine’s Day. And it was super cute. had them.
Aaron Smith – MAG (50:55.687)
that’s
Aaron Smith – MAG (50:55.872)
cool.
Arlene Pellicane (50:56.199)
like do a little chalkboard of the menu. was a very simple menu. I mean, I think I cooked and they served it was just pasta. You know, it was very simple, but they made a little menu and one of them came out in a little apron and was the hostess and saddest. And we did a little candlelight and they came out and they brought us the food. It was super cute. So that’s a shout out to just like have these rhythms in your home that are visual to your kids to show them like, you know what this whole husband wife thing it is.
Aaron Smith – MAG (51:21.231)
yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (51:25.361)
special and then it forces you to even recognize that. And the other thing we’ve done is like a regular getaway, just 24 hours. So 24 hours and you, you, the kids go to grandma and grandpa’s and you spend 24 hours, just the two of you. If you have someone local that you can, you know, use that it’s trusted for that, then that’s perfect. Cause then you just are local and you just get away for 24 hours. If this means you really have to travel.
Arlene Pellicane (51:51.443)
to someone, a grandma and grandpa, it is worth it. Like as long
Aaron Smith – MAG (51:53.975)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (51:54.004)
as you’re with grandma and grandpa, ask them, watch the kids for a day, just you guys, because that’ll give them an opportunity to bond. And then you two take a night and go to the hotel. It really is important. Just get away as a rhythm once a year for 24 hours. And that’ll do wonders. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (52:11.428)
Minimum 24 hours. Yeah, for the first
Aaron Smith – MAG (52:14.962)
time in 11 years, there was a couple times that my wife and I went away, but we always had one of our children with us. But it was for work also. It wasn’t just for us. But for the first time for my 40th birthday, Jennifer was like, what do you want? was like, I just want me and you to go to Hawaii. And so we went for a few days. It was awesome, but like…
Arlene Pellicane (52:20.275)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (52:24.551)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Arlene Pellicane (52:31.396)
Yeah. my gosh, that’s amazing.
Aaron Smith – MAG (52:37.34)
24 hours in, we’re like, we miss the kids. We wish they were here.
Arlene Pellicane (52:39.208)
Totally right? It’s like totally, no it is, no
Arlene Pellicane (52:41.423)
it’s true, cause you experience the things, like, I wish they could have seen that. Yeah, no I get it.
Aaron Smith – MAG (52:44.76)
Yeah, what
Aaron Smith – MAG (52:45.971)
I realized how many things are more fun with kids like sitting on the beach is cool. Okay, but sitting there and the kids having a blast and throwing sand and playing in the water and building sandcastles. That’s what makes it fun. But I told Jennifer, I was like every year I was like, we don’t have to go to Hawaii every year, but for sure I’m going to take you somewhere for at least a night. Just me and you to go hang out and have an us have us time because it was so
Arlene Pellicane (52:49.118)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (52:57.79)
Yeah, yeah, that’s so funny. That’s awesome.
Arlene Pellicane (53:04.829)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (53:07.272)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (53:12.718)
refreshing. was so necessary. And then it also made us miss the kids and get excited to come back. And so
Arlene Pellicane (53:16.452)
Yes, it is.
Arlene Pellicane (53:18.385)
has all those benefits. It’s like, okay, this is how we were before kids. And it gets you used to being just the two of you. And then you’re right. It’s like, yay, I’m back home with the kids. And then that’s a good feeling.
Aaron Smith – MAG (53:29.404)
Yeah, but Jennifer and I were realizing we’re so close. This next 10 years, we’re going to have kids moving out, getting married, having their own children. And I was just realizing, like, I can’t wait to have grandkids. And then Jennifer and I are already talking about, we’re going to, like, travel around and see them and, like, make our whole career go and hang out with our kids’ kids. Yeah. And I’m getting excited about that. Like, trying to, I’m trying to set up now. I hope.
Arlene Pellicane (53:36.124)
Yep. Yep.
Arlene Pellicane (53:39.332)
goodness.
Arlene Pellicane (53:47.484)
Right, Yeah, all the great kids, right?
Arlene Pellicane (53:54.558)
Aaron Smith – MAG (53:56.988)
I don’t mess it up. I try to set
Arlene Pellicane (53:58.022)
Yeah, totally. That’s awesome.
Aaron Smith – MAG (53:58.169)
it up now so that we have good relationships with all of our kids. Yeah. But I’m human. not as an excuse, yeah. I tell that we tell the kids all the time. like, we’re gonna, we can’t wait for you guys to have kids. They’re like, how many kids are we gonna have? I’m like, I don’t know. But I just, I mean, I’m excited for you to have kids. Cause I want to go hang out with your kids. Yeah. So.
Arlene Pellicane (54:06.854)
I love that though.
Arlene Pellicane (54:13.479)
Right?
Arlene Pellicane (54:19.358)
Yeah
Aaron Smith – MAG (54:23.933)
It’s cool thing. what’s one piece of advice as we come to a close that you can give to couples feeling overwhelmed maybe? Because it’s fun to talk about. Like you said, you look in hindsight and you can laugh about things that were not funny at the time. But there’s a lot of marriages, I remember what it felt like for us. You’re in the midst of struggle, you’re in the midst of weight and heaviness and bitterness and anger and it’s just not what you wanted.
Arlene Pellicane (54:35.612)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (54:52.56)
What’s something you can encourage those couples about that are listening that might be there?
Arlene Pellicane (54:55.614)
Yeah, two thoughts come to mind, making marriage easier. You know how like if you wanna go to the gym, but it’s like, I mean, you’ve got the membership and now you gotta get in the car. I mean, it’s like, you forget about it. But if you have an appointment, if it’s like I’m going to that specific class and then my friend is going to meet me there and if I don’t show up, I have to pay them $10 and I put my shoes by the bed and I pick out my outfit if I’m a girl and I just wake up.
Aaron Smith – MAG (55:07.614)
Mm-hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (55:24.53)
And I put that stuff up and I go, that made it easier. So how can we do that in marriage? So try to make it as specific as possible. Not just like, I’ll try to be nicer, but just be like, okay, when they come home, I will give him or her a hug. See, so it’s very specific, right? So try to do something easy that you can repeat and make it specific and just do that. Like, just be like, okay.
Aaron Smith – MAG (55:35.794)
Yeah, what does that mean?
Aaron Smith – MAG (55:43.634)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (55:52.892)
I’ve listened to this podcast and when my spouse comes home, I’m going to hug them. And that’s all I’m going to do for like two weeks, you know? So don’t make it so complicated that it’s like, my goodness, I cannot do this. Like it’s way too many things at once to try to do. You know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna book this and I’m gonna take out the dragon and I’m gonna do this. just, just concentrate on a little thing and do it and start feeling that win.
Aaron Smith – MAG (56:12.828)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (56:18.46)
And the momentum of, Hey, we feel a little closer because we’re doing that little daily hug thing and then move to the, let’s, let’s try date night and let’s do that once a month. Okay. We’re doing the date night once a month. Now let’s, let’s move on to the once a year, 24 hour thing. just keep that momentum going and pray. ask Lord humble my heart. Just make me willing to learn, make me willing, make help me to be a servant. Like you’re servant, change me, change my heart, God, and let the Holy Spirit.
Arlene Pellicane (56:47.729)
you know, do that heavy work. And as you’re moving, he’s going to empower that and just like fill that sail and make it go so much further.
Aaron Smith – MAG (56:49.536)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (56:55.777)
You might have just given a magic bullet by the way. This the hug thing. I don’t know how many times that if I come home and when my kids do it when they run up to give me a hug or when my wife comes goes out of her way to say hey and hugs me and like it makes me feel so big as a man and I don’t think I’m unique. I think every husband would love that. Just someone that’s happy to see them when they come home.
Arlene Pellicane (56:57.915)
Mm.
Arlene Pellicane (57:01.062)
Hmm.
Arlene Pellicane (57:06.139)
Yeah, yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (57:13.073)
Hmm.
Aaron Smith – MAG (57:22.273)
and shows it that that would be such a huge thing I think for many marriages. But yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (57:26.781)
Isn’t that beautiful? And it’s not hard.
Arlene Pellicane (57:28.905)
Like that is not hard. And it could be like a new habit. But it could be a new habit that then now it becomes not hard because it feels so natural.
Aaron Smith – MAG (57:30.815)
of Phil’s heart sometimes.
Aaron Smith – MAG (57:37.107)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith – MAG (57:38.518)
It would be an amazing thing. I also want to add the Thanksgiving portion of this. It’s a simple thing, even though it feels hard, of just focusing even to yourself or in a journal, what are you thankful for? Because it’d be like, I’m not thankful for my husband. Well, no, there is, or my wife, there is stuff you’re thankful for, like that they support you, that they are there, that…
Arlene Pellicane (57:59.057)
Yeah, yeah, something. Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (58:03.1)
Yep.
Aaron Smith – MAG (58:05.944)
They did that specific thing the other day for the kids that there’s something many things probably. was telling we were talking to kids about Thanksgiving the other day and I was saying you probably if you were to start doing it and you would probably never stop finding things to be thankful for if you just tried to articulate it and it actually be very difficult to to stop being thankful if you started and which would be a big mental transformation of like
Arlene Pellicane (58:22.642)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (58:34.145)
going from, I’m not thankful right now, I’m lonely, I’m sad, I’m angry, to I’m going to be thankful. And the Holy Spirit uses that and He draws us to the Father in that thanksgiving. It’s a part of our worship to Him. And the Bible tells us that when we pray to Him and give thanksgiving to Him, that His peace that surpasses all understanding will guard our hearts and our minds in Christ Jesus. And so…
Arlene Pellicane (58:39.153)
Yeah.
Arlene Pellicane (58:55.292)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Aaron Smith – MAG (58:59.363)
Thanksgiving. I love your practical, I take one specific thing and try and do that. And then the Thanksgiving I think would be a massive game changer of changing our perspective on our current circumstances.
Aaron Smith – MAG (59:16.021)
Amen. Arlene, thank you so much. What’s your book called again? Where can they get it?
Arlene Pellicane (59:16.707)
Amen.
Arlene Pellicane (59:22.02)
It is called making
Arlene Pellicane (59:23.141)
marriage easier and you can go to making marriage easier.com and check it out. There’s like freebies there and discussion questions that you can do in a group and all sorts of things to go with the date night ideas. So making marriage easier.com.
Aaron Smith – MAG (59:37.567)
And that, I will put those links in our show notes so that everyone can get them. Arlene, you’re awesome and encouraging. And I just pray that lots of people get your book and I pray that marriages are just blessed by it.
Arlene Pellicane (59:51.526)
Thank you and I pray that your listeners will chip in and get you guys a new mattress. Just kidding. Thank you. There you go, there you go. thanks so much for having me.
Aaron Smith – MAG (59:55.075)
I’m thankful for our mattress. say that. I’m thankful for our mattress.
Aaron Smith – MAG (01:00:03.801)
Yeah, I hope to have you again soon and you have an awesome day. Thank you so much.
