Breaking Free from Pornography, The Power of Confession, Building a Marriage-Centered Ministry – w/ Sathiya & Shaloma Sam

Aaron Smith (01:16.122)

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. Today I have Sathya and Shaloma Sam with me. Welcome to the show, guys. 

Sathiya (01:11.212)

Yeah, okay, cool. 

Sathiya (01:23.582)

Hey, thanks for having us, Thank you, we’re so excited. 

Aaron Smith (01:26.456)

Sam or Sathya, I know that maybe some of my audience knows you guys, but they probably don’t know both of you. And so I’d love for you guys to start off with sharing a bit of your guys’s story. Maybe how long you guys been married, how you guys met, some of that stuff. And, now what you’re doing currently in ministry. 

Sathiya (01:43.695)

Yeah, I think the world’s sick of hearing me. think this is pretty cool that you get to hear from Shaloma. She doesn’t normally join me on the podcast. this is pretty fun. We’ve been married for five years, five and a half years. We became parents about 15 months ago to Judah. you know, thank you, man. Thank you. We got some catching up to do though. How many you got over there? Five, six? 

Aaron Smith (01:59.336)

Congratulations. 

Aaron Smith (02:04.666)

We just had our sixth 

Aaron Smith (02:05.758)

four months ago. 

Sathiya (02:06.778)

Sheesh, yeah, that’s unreal. Yeah, we’re like, you know, barely head above water here with one. So very, very impressed over there. But yeah, you know, we we have like the classic we both grew up in church, a lot of ministry and pastors in our lineages. And then we met at ministry school, you know, as fate would have it. And and so, yeah, we we started this business helping guys quit pornography addiction. I mean, we started six years ago, really. And and in the last few years, we’ve done it a bit. 

Sathiya (02:36.615)

more serious and full-time and yeah worship was the thing that kind of united us in ministry school she’s an incredible worship leader and I’m quite musical I’ll play keys and that sort of thing and so yeah so that’s a little bit of us in a nutshell that feel fair yeah and I just wanted to point out that 

Sathiya (02:54.423)

Well, it’s mainly Sathya who started the business, but I always have to tell people this because he will actually say this because he doesn’t like to brag about himself. he literally started in our very tiny one bedroom basement apartment sitting at our little corner table that we created that isn’t even a dining table. Technically in the kitchen. the living The dining room, the living room, the kitchen. 

Sathiya (03:24.356)

Yeah, it was very small room. And was still doing his full-time job and he would wake up at 5.30 every morning, work on this program that he was creating that he had no clue if anyone would be interested, go to work, come home, eat dinner, we’d spend some time together. Then he would start working, go to bed at like 10.30 or 11 or whatever time, sometimes later. And just that was every single day. That was like year one of our marriage. That was year one of our marriage which, God protect 

Sathiya (03:54.209)

us 

Sathiya (03:54.509)

because like it wasn’t it didn’t feel I didn’t feel like he’s working too much and it actually felt I think I just I had vision as well and I knew 

Sathiya (04:04.002)

what God was gonna do through this. So I actually was just like, this is just a season and there’s gonna be a season where this is, we’re gonna like, work is gonna slow down, he’ll have more time or whatever, which is what the season we’ve been in for a couple of years. But anyways, and he started with one client, one guy who was interested, I guess, and he hadn’t, I don’t know if you want me to give this away, but he hadn’t even finished the program yet. And he signed this guy on. 

Sathiya (04:33.936)

I was like, what are you doing? You haven’t even finished yet. And he’s like, you know, it’s just good motivation to get it done. yeah, anyway, so this is the guy, this is, you know, just what we’ve been, this is the start of it basically. And like not many people get to hear that story. So I just think it’s cool. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (04:40.179)

Eh. 

Aaron Smith (04:53.192)

Well, thank you for sharing that. Shoma, I think we should dig into that a little bit. This is not what I was planning on talking about, but I love this because you just almost described exactly my wife and I’s beginning of our journey. 

Sathiya (04:58.071)

Hahaha 

Sathiya (05:04.598)

I was going to say, if there’s anyone who 

Sathiya (05:05.952)

would understand it, would be Erin and Jen. These guys are like pioneers for online ministry. It’s amazing what they do. 

Aaron Smith (05:10.408)

We 

Aaron Smith (05:11.459)

had a little tiny apartment and no kids yet and we had a little table in our kitchen that was like our, I’m not kidding. And we would get up and we would work on that together. And there’s a video we posted years ago when we first started, when we got out of debt. it was a picture, it was these like, this slideshow of pictures of us throwing confetti and saying we’re out of debt. And it was in that kitchen. And so. 

Sathiya (05:17.671)

my gosh. What? 

Sathiya (05:37.783)

Wow. 

Aaron Smith (05:38.494)

your story is very similar to ours and it’s true. Exactly what you said that when you both had the vision and, Cynthia, I’m sure that you walked Shiloma through that and you shared your vision and she was on board with that, of course. Otherwise you wouldn’t have been where you were in your heart with that. And I just think that’s so cool because for anyone listening that’s got a desire for starting a business or a ministry or something like that and you have 

Sathiya (05:54.012)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (06:07.07)

your full-time career, like that’s okay and that’s a good thing and you know what? There’s gonna be a season where you have to hustle. It shouldn’t be your whole life of hustling, but a season of intentional, harder time, working in the dark, working with no income, no return, and figuring those things out just like you’re talking about. And often, go ahead. 

Sathiya (06:14.327)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (06:27.852)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (06:29.848)

think it’s worth mentioning as well. Well, two things actually from that story. Number one is, and Shaloma left this out, but she was actually very sick the first year of marriage. When we were engaged, she was bedridden. Doctors didn’t know what was going on. It took us about a year to figure it out. But she was like a thriving worship leader, getting asked to lead worship around the country, that kind of thing. And basically everything just got shut right down. She was just at home doing her best to provide support where she could. 

Aaron Smith (06:40.256)

Sathiya (06:59.745)

we 

Sathiya (06:59.855)

were going in one direction and God kind of directed us in the other. And that was part of the incentive as well to be like, man, I think I need to kind of step up and provide a little bit more. But the other thing is we, even though I was working crazy hours, we’d had a date night every single week. We still had date night every week. We still got time together on the weekend. Like those were like, they were ironclad things in the calendar that were protected at all costs. And because she was so limited in what she could do, date night was typically just ordering in some food and watching a movie. wasn’t anything spectacular. 

Aaron Smith (07:18.526)

Hmm. 

Sathiya (07:29.648)

But we both just made that decision. In addition to the vision that we were brought into, God had spoken, we were still committed to protecting the marriage and making sure that we were laying a good foundation for us. And we still don’t miss date night, know, five years in and now we have a little one. And people always say like, yeah, good luck. Once you have kids, it gets way harder and whatever, whatever. And it’s like, no, this is just, it’s a value for us and it’s already survived starting a business and everything else. So anyways, those things were important for our marriage as well on that stage. 

Aaron Smith (07:56.606)

And you’re absolutely right. It shouldn’t be like you started a business, but it was ministry. It shouldn’t be that that’s, know, the marriage gets sacrificed on that altar. It actually comes along with it and it’s a part of it and you guys are a team. even if, Shaloma, you weren’t doing the work, you were doing the work on the backside of being with him and supporting him. And I love that perspective. And it’s something that all marriages should recognize because 

Sathiya (08:03.448)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (08:09.91)

Yeah. Yeah. 

Sathiya (08:19.277)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (08:24.83)

Even if you’re not having a side business or a ministry, you know, a quote unquote ministry outside the home, even in your careers, that same focus needs to be there, recognizing that, yes, this thing I do over here is to support for physical logistical needs, but I’m here to support the spiritual, physical, emotional, all the other needs and those are required equally. And it’s not, you know, this and not that. 

Sathiya (08:54.189)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (08:54.541)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (08:54.76)

both. 

Sathiya (08:56.065)

It honestly like that’s exactly it. Cause I used to feel like, like what’s my role and like, how am I contributing? And he would constantly, sometimes to this day, it’s like, he would, he’s like, I wouldn’t be able to do this without you because of your support emotionally and prayer wise. And also like, you know, like I take care of things at the home so that he can like, that doesn’t have to be on his shoulders and like, you know, provide snacks when he’s, when he used to work from home. 

Sathiya (09:25.968)

which he doesn’t anymore, but when he used to work from home. snacks, come on. could be more important than that? But yeah, and so it’s like remembering that like the things that I provide for him are actually like… 

Aaron Smith (09:26.568)

Work snacks, you need work snacks. 

Sathiya (09:40.117)

Helping him to be a better man and helping him thrive which ultimately helps the business and you know He he does actually come to me for quite a lot of business advice, which sometimes I’m like, I don’t know anything But I guess there’s like some intuition that women have but yeah, she’s so discerning, right? So like I’m like the classic like I get excited about things. Let’s just hire the guy, know She’s the one who’s like, yeah, but did you ask about this or you know? I don’t have I don’t have a good feeling about it or that kind of stuff and 

Aaron Smith (09:53.982)

I don’t believe that. 

Sathiya (10:10.05)

She’s been just invaluable that way. So helpful. And even some when we were designing the program, there are a couple of things where she’s like, why are you doing that? And I’m like, that’s what other people do. Like this is how coaches, you know, like one of the things was we were doing these zoom calls and the business coach that I was learning from at the time, he would do zoom calls with his clients, but he would be off camera. Is that right? No, or he would be on camera, but nobody else was on camera. It was like a zoom webinar. So it’s just like you’re asking the guru the questions. So that’s how I set up my calls. And she’s like, no, these guys are struggling with like a major addiction. 

Sathiya (10:39.873)

They 

Sathiya (10:40.233)

need to see each other, like they need the personal connection, you know? And I was like, oh yeah, of course, what do I do? You it was so obvious, but like I just needed the, I needed her voice in it. And she’s been like that the entire time since the business has started. I’m also sometimes too direct. That’s my personality. I’m very honest and I have to approach it very gently. I’ve learned that that like there’s- Yeah, it’s still my baby. Yeah, just, hey, so have you thought about this? Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (10:43.132)

That’s true. 

Aaron Smith (11:06.354)

Yeah, to soften the critique. 

Aaron Smith (11:09.375)

That’s something I do actually struggle with is receiving critique well. So my wife has to, we have to work on, I have to work on receiving and she has to work on giving and it’s like a, it’s a ball. Yeah. But so many times though, she’s had input that I didn’t take. She’s like, why don’t you, know, this or I don’t think you should do that. And I look back and I’m like, I should have listened to you on that. 

Sathiya (11:12.366)

Me too. 

Sathiya (11:20.837)

That’s literally us. 100%. Wow. Yeah. Seems like we have a lot of overlap. 

Aaron Smith (11:35.366)

That was a good, those were good inputs. so, you’re just, your story is very similar. It’s awesome, I love this. So, you mentioned, I just wanted to point out something. You mentioned how when you guys, how many months ago did you just have your baby? 15 months? 15 months. And you were saying how people were saying negative things like, good luck, or kiss your time goodbye. Yeah, I just want to take a few minutes to. 

Sathiya (11:35.648)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (11:42.348)

Yeah 

Sathiya (11:50.666)

Yeah, 15. 

Sathiya (11:59.191)

Your date night, yeah. Or your god time in the morning, yeah. 

Aaron Smith (12:03.902)

debunk all of that because I think there’s been a culture in the church and outside the church of just receiving the enemies lies about children and that’s it comes out of their mouths when we first When we first got pregnant, I don’t think we heard a single positive thing from people now people would say things in a positive way Like good thing you guys got all your traveling done before you had your kids, but that’s not a positive statement That’s a you’re done. You’re not gonna have any more time. You’re 

Sathiya (12:14.872)

Hmm. 

Sathiya (12:22.167)

Crazy. 

Sathiya (12:27.722)

Yeah. Yeah. It even starts 

Sathiya (12:33.091)

from marriage. Yeah, even Good luck on your first year. first year is the worst. You know, like people say that stuff all the time. 

Aaron Smith (12:36.241)

Aaron Smith (12:40.094)

And I believe most people, especially Christians, they’ve just adopted it. Like that’s the thing you say. It’s like the funny icebreaker or the, you know, well, it’s the unfortunate reality of things, but it’s not. Like the Bible tells us to not let any unwholesome things come out of our mouths, that we should be encouraging and only things that are pure and upright and good, that those are the things we should think on. And so I just, it’s interesting that you hear that and I feel like we all hear that. And I try now whenever I… 

Aaron Smith (13:08.86)

whenever I find out someone’s pregnant, I don’t say a single negative thing about it. And I say only positive, that’s so awesome. You’re about to have the, yeah, the first one, it could be hard, but it’s gonna be so good. It’s gonna be, and I try and just dispel all of the negative comments about it. Do you feel like having your child has hindered you guys? 

Sathiya (13:13.473)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (13:20.898)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (13:30.116)

absolutely not. No, I mean, it’s been the best thing that we’ve together by far, you know, and it’s it’s I mean, I think it’s funny when people say something’s hard because like usually they’re they’re projecting their own experiences or like it’s very it’s so 

Aaron Smith (13:36.017)

Amen. 

Sathiya (13:45.385)

Ambience like I that could mean a lot of things but I would say having a kid was an adjustment for sure the same way that gained married and learning to share You know your space with another person is an adjustment So we definitely had some things to figure out but so rewarding and even though the hardest part so far of these 15 months as parents They were still amazing, know, they’re amazing because you’re doing something so life-giving together. You’re growing you’re learning Yeah, we wouldn’t trade it for the world. So those people are crazy. Whoever said like it’s bad or it’s tough like they’re crazy 

Aaron Smith (13:50.846)

Of 

Aaron Smith (14:14.717)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (14:15.488)

Yeah, like motherhood obviously for anyone who’s ever been a mother is extremely difficult like I’m not gonna sugarcoat it It’s probably the hardest thing that I’ve ever done but it’s also the most rewarding it sounds so like cheesy or cliche, but that’s like I have no other word except rewarding. It’s just like Like especially when you they’re just so cute 

Aaron Smith (14:40.114)

They’re amazing. 

Sathiya (14:41.206)

You know, 

Sathiya (14:41.547)

I think God made babies cute to help us get through like the hardest. But yeah, I’m like. 

Aaron Smith (14:46.024)

hard nights. 

Aaron Smith (14:48.722)

Yeah, because you’re 

Aaron Smith (14:49.766)

frustrated and then you look at me like, how can I be mad at you? You’re so darn cute. 

Sathiya (14:52.559)

Sathiya (14:55.421)

Especially toddlers, know, they go through their stages and but they’re so darn cute. Anyway, yeah, all the good far outweighs the bad for sure. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (15:04.942)

Aaron Smith (15:05.683)

and there is no bad, you know, it’s, I think that’s, but heart is good. Like I was just on a podcast and I was sharing kind of a revelation I had recently in a conversation with my wife and I’m just going to repeat it it’s so good that having a family and raising children and not just having one, but like a thriving, healthy family is the hardest job in the world. 

Sathiya (15:09.27)

Yeah, it’s just hard at times. 

Sathiya (15:33.176)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (15:33.626)

It’s the most rewarding job, of course, because like, as anyone says, like anything worth doing is, you know, is going to be hard. Right. And and it’s hard. It’s harder than having multi-billion dollar companies. It’s harder than having thousand employees. It’s harder than doing any one of those things, because men and women who have done those things often have failed in their families. So they can be accomplished over there in this huge thing that you’d say, wow, look at that. But then the most important thing, the the most valuable thing. 

Sathiya (15:39.566)

True. 

Sathiya (15:46.177)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (15:52.888)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (15:57.775)

So true. 

Aaron Smith (16:02.814)

the thing that society’s built on, that governments are formed by, that the highest amount of joy and satisfaction comes from, that’s the thing that we fail at. So of course, is it gonna be easy? No, but it’s literally the most, it’s the hardest job, it’s the hardest thing to ever accomplish, but it’s the most valuable thing to ever accomplish. 

Sathiya (16:12.748)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (16:21.358)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (16:23.406)

Sathiya (16:24.226)

That’s why I really respect you Erin and your wife and the work you guys do and why I think it’s so important why I even was like yeah let’s get Shalom on here and let’s like have a proper conversation as a couple because I think I really do believe like healthy families are the backbone of a thriving society and I think we’ve deviated so far from that and that’s why we do the work we do as well like it’s it’s a different angle but really like I feel like if I’m effective in the vision that God’s given us and what we’re what we’re doing helping guys quit pornography and 

Aaron Smith (16:46.728)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (16:53.373)

into sexual integrity, it should make the marriages better and the families better which will make the society and the world at large better as well you know and I think that’s what that’s what this is about and that’s why I love what you guys do. 

Aaron Smith (17:04.606)

It’s amazing and what you’re doing is more necessary now than ever before. I think it’s always been an issue. mean, Paul talks about it quite often actually in the Bible, this issue with sexual morality. It’s been an issue since the beginning of time because of the way God designed us. We have a biological makeup. God made us in a good way and because of sin, that good thing desires to be corrupted. 

Sathiya (17:18.914)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (17:34.246)

It’s a constant pull like a magnet of. Our flesh wants something. Food. We’re transitioning now into what you guys do, what your ministry is. So our body wants something. We’re hungry. You know, it’s a biological necessity. I need food. I need the calories. My body needs it to exist. And even then, even with the most base need, food, God calls us to fast. He says, tell your body no. 

Sathiya (17:41.848)

Hmm. 

Sathiya (18:02.957)

Right. 

Aaron Smith (18:04.37)

He says, remind your flesh that the spirit must be in charge, not the flesh. And so that’s where we come to this idea of pornography and the issue of sexual morality and not just in the world, but in the church. And that’s what you’ve been focusing on for what, last, you said five years? Six years? So why don’t we start with like, what prompted that? And I could probably guess, but tell me, like go back to 

Sathiya (18:22.902)

Yeah, six years, six years ago we started, yeah. 

Aaron Smith (18:34.268)

you know, six years and, you know, three months. What happened that was leading up to this idea of start, what’s name of your ministry by the way, real quick. 

Sathiya (18:43.49)

deep clean, deep clean is the name of it. 

Aaron Smith (18:45.49)

deep clean and it’s to help men be free from the addiction of pornography to be clear. So go back. What started this journey? 

Sathiya (18:51.416)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (18:57.359)

So it goes back a lot further than 60 years ago. I was exposed to pornography in the computer lab of my Christian school when I was 11 years old. 

Sathiya (19:06.778)

And that’s really where the story starts. I’m a pastor’s kid, like I said, in Christian education. And I wasn’t addicted overnight. You know, in fact, I was actually prepubescent. So I was kind of disturbed. I didn’t really understand what had happened, but it just planted a seed, right? That’s kind of how the enemy works. He starts very small, innocent, just almost bypasses the radar kind of thing. But by the time I was in high school, I was watching regularly in universities where I would say I had a proper addiction. was planning my days around it. Couldn’t really go a day without view. 

Sathiya (19:37.065)

And I had really built my biological needs all around watching pornography and getting a release afterwards I I’m I’m a brainy guy like I skipped grade two had five figures in research grants in University had my honors degree before I turned 20 that kind of deal and so the way I was coping with my stress and University was I was watching pornography because I was very high achieving and had a lot of pressure But ironically it was in that lab. I was in a completely atheistic environment, you know all of my 

Sathiya (20:06.668)

and my professors, they all mock the idea of God. And that’s where I really gave my life to Jesus. Because I was forced to kind of defend my beliefs and figure out why do I believe what I believe. So I reached this conclusion, okay, God is real, I’m committing my life to him fully, he has my full heart. And because I’ve grown up in the church, I know that comes with the decision, or a couple lifestyle changes. know, I can’t be getting drunk on the weekends with my friends anymore, I need to clean up my language, and I need to stop watching pornography. And so I just figured I’ll just knock these out over a weekend. 

Sathiya (20:36.351)

and I’m a good Christian boy all over again. alcohol and clean up language, relatively straightforward. They didn’t really have strongholds in my life, but I probably went about three days without pornography. And that began a five year journey of trying to figure out how does one actually quit porn. And what most people were telling me back then were to get an internet filter, join an accountability group, ask the Lord to give you more control, more willpower, whatever, and pray more. Pray more, read your Bible more. 

Aaron Smith (20:58.376)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (21:06.384)

all good pieces of advice, but unfortunately none of them worked for me. So I was just left banging my head against the wall like, I’m earnest, I’m diligent, I have what seem to be reasonable solutions, it’s not working, like something must be wrong with me. And at the same time, I was reading the promises of scripture, you know, and I knew that God didn’t just call us to these standards of sexual morality to prove how, you incapable we were. He called us to them because they’re actually attainable, and I just needed to figure out how. And this is really where Deep Clean got birthed. 

Sathiya (21:36.297)

because I realized how few people were actually talking about the deeper elements of sexual sin, you know, and why we commit sexual sin and what actually drives us in the first place. It’s so much more than just libido and urges. There’s a lot more to it. And I just purposed in my heart, this is still in the middle of my struggle, that God, if you help me figure this out for myself, I will do everything in my power to help as many other people figure it out for themselves as well. And I think God really honored that prayer. And I had a second prayer that I’ll get to maybe a little bit later. 

Sathiya (22:06.0)

But that first prayer really did get honored. had my last relapse February 2016 and it was about two and a half years later. I was just kind of enjoying freedom and she and I had become quite serious. But it was when she became sick that like I mentioned, I kind of start to think more about provision and that kind of thing. And that’s when this whole thing kind of just felt like God breathed life onto it. And I had been I hadn’t been free that long before, but I had bouts prior where I went eight months or I went a year and then I kind of slipped again. And so I really prayed about 

Sathiya (22:35.95)

it first because I didn’t want to start something and then crumble. I didn’t want to get into this prematurely because that would obviously do more harm than good. But I prayed about it. I really felt like God said, no, you’re good. I’m blessing you to do this. And we’ve been off to the races ever since. 

Aaron Smith (22:52.882)

That’s amazing. Shalom. When you met him, was he open with these things right away? 

Sathiya (22:58.701)

Yeah, maybe not right away, but it didn’t take too long. I actually forget when you told me. It’s pretty early on. Like, I don’t think we weren’t engaged yet. Like was before we got engaged. No, we were dating for sure. Yeah. Well, I think we actually do remember us having like a vulnerable conversation about like both of our pasts, just things that like we were both engaged in prior to, you know, the Lord. 

Sathiya (23:23.776)

shifting things in our lives but yeah so I remember that conversation and I mean honestly like I just I don’t know I just had no judgment and just didn’t see him any differently he wasn’t struggling at the time like he had already stopped before he met me and who knows maybe that would have been a bit more different of a conversation had he still been struggling 

Sathiya (23:52.003)

But honestly, when I think about it, even if he was still struggling, it definitely would have been nice to hear. But I think I, for me personally, I have a bit of understanding about it that I would just. 

Sathiya (24:03.862)

be more wanting to see how I could support him to help him overcome. yeah, thankfully that wasn’t our story. anyways, yeah, I just, I’m so thankful that he was honest from the get-go of everything, because he just gave like a clear… 

Sathiya (24:22.912)

A clear slate of like foundation of like, so cool. This is what our past looks like and like now let’s move forward. yeah, and then him from the very beginning actually, he said that like one day he desires to be able to help other guys get free. He doesn’t know what it looks like yet, especially at the time he was in ministry. Like he was a pastor, a youth pastor at the time when we were just dating. 

Sathiya (24:52.969)

and so had no clue what that would look like or what it would become but honestly it’s just amazing I just have to say I’m so proud of him and just don’t push it too much but yeah I’m just just very thankful for the ways that God has used his his story and yeah 

Aaron Smith (25:03.783)

Mm 

Aaron Smith (25:07.226)

I was going to say the same thing. You should have run all your podcasts. 

Sathiya (25:22.078)

it could have been a different story. You know, so. But I’ll say like when we started dating, I was pretty early on in recovery. So that’s actually part of the second prayer is my first prayer was God, you know, if you help me figure this out, I’ll help other guys figure it out too. My second prayer was God, whoever my future wife is, keep her from me until I’m ready. 

Sathiya (25:43.373)

So that’s why it took so long. probably. Probably part of it. Yeah. Man, was like, come on, where is this dude? Well, you know, I was the classic single guy that was like, man, I can’t wait till I’m married or be having sex regularly and then I won’t watch porn. And I said this to my mentor one day and he almost like reached across the table and smacked like, what are you talking? Like, he’s like, dude, that is not how it works. Like if it’s a problem now, it’s going to be a bigger problem later. And he just he got to me, you know, like, you know, sometimes you hear good advice and it’s kind of just water off a duck’s back. But 

Sathiya (26:13.496)

Really like he got through to me. So that’s when I prayed that prayer I was like, okay Well, if that is true then God whoever my future wife is keeper from me because I’m not ready and you’ll know when I’m ready And I had my last read last February 2016 November 2016 was when we met We started dating shortly after that. So I was still pretty early on and I definitely I mean again, we all know what it’s like you’re dating 

Sathiya (26:36.435)

And so you know there’s lines you don’t want to cross, certainly like while you’re dating, but even when you’re engaged before you get married. And this is like the, it’s the constant dance of any Christian couples figuring out how do you honor God and how do you not cross those lines. believe you me, I’m early on in recovery, I’m enjoying my freedom, but I’m still figuring things out. And there was a lot of things that we got to figure out together during that dating stage for sure. And one memory in particular that comes to mind is, 

Sathiya (27:06.328)

I had a really stressful day at work. We had date night that night. We’ve always been really good with date night like I talked about even when we were dating. And so I picked her up and that entire day at work, all I wanted to do was watch pornography. was literally just rolling through my head. Like too much stress and this was kind of my old Sathya kind of creeping back in a little bit. My old stress response. So I’m driving, it’s like a 25 minute drive to the apartment and I’m just thinking, man, this is bad news. We’re going to the apartment and I’ve been tempted to watch pornography and da da da da. 

Sathiya (27:36.161)

But 

Sathiya (27:36.681)

I’m all bottled in right like I’m all in my head and meanwhile she probably thinks like we’re having this great conversation But like my head’s in another place. Well, she probably knew the woman always knows when you’re in the conversation when you’re not but Yeah, exactly Yeah, I don’t think she gave me that but she would have been well within her right to so we get we get to the apartment You know I still remember pulling in the driveway and all of a sudden it clicks like the only way that I actually got out of my porn addiction and was was able to endure 

Aaron Smith (27:46.142)

That’s true. You’re not listening, you? You’re not listening. 

Sathiya (28:06.064)

some freedom was because I started talking to people when I was struggling. I would have temptations or difficult times and I would nip them in the bud. was that preemptive, proactive mindset that got me there. So was like, duh, dude, just talk to her about it. And so she’s getting out of the car and I was like, babe, wait, wait, I need to tell you something. And she’s like, oh, what is it? And I said, I’ve been really tempted to watch pornography all day and I’m really nervous that we’re going to cross a line as we go into my apartment and spend date night together. 

Sathiya (28:35.997)

She just looked back at me and she was like, that’s okay. Thanks so much for letting me know. She had a big smile on her face. She really appreciated it. And she said, I’ll pick up the slack. And that was it. We had a great date night and it was just the act of talking about it that took all the stigma of it from me. We had a great night together and I just realized this is something that I teach my guys now is I would rather confess a temptation than confess a mistake. And I think it’s just, there were little things that we got along the way during dating when 

Sathiya (29:05.84)

I was doing well with porn. wasn’t watching anymore, but still lots to figure out. I think that season was really, really valuable for us. It really laid a good foundation for us going into marriage. Yeah, and I actually, wanted to point out… 

Sathiya (29:21.1)

There is something so powerful about bringing things to light because it removes the power from it. It exposes darkness, right? That’s what light does. Darkness doesn’t actually exist in science. did a bit of science. Yeah, darkness is the absence of light. Light is actually what’s real. And so it’s like, yeah, like we’re… 

Aaron Smith (29:36.04)

No, please. 

Sathiya (29:48.175)

I lost my train of thought. But yeah, so about light. You got to bring things through light. Yeah, also, sorry, and also truth. wanted to say that the Word of God says that the truth is what sets us free, right? So Him being truthful and bringing that into light, think that’s part of what probably broke the power of that thing that was going on in your head. And all of a sudden, you feel free. All of a sudden, you’re like, I’m OK. Right? You didn’t feel like it was… 

Aaron Smith (29:51.454)

The power of the confession, the power of bringing things to light. 

Sathiya (30:18.128)

It just takes the sting out of it. There is a difference between bringing things to light versus things being brought to light and That’s that’s the story that you hear off late and guys are notorious for this right like we know something’s wrong We know something’s off, but we don’t talk about it. We bottle it in we figure we can we can deal with it We’ll figure it out and then BAM like all of sudden like you’re making a decision you regret It doesn’t take much or you get caught you know your wife takes your phone and she sees your browser history She sees a text she sees photos whatever so I think 

Aaron Smith (30:26.387)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (30:48.001)

Again, you don’t want things to get brought to light. You want to be the one who brings things to light. That’s night and day difference in the outcome. Yeah, and there’s been situations throughout our relationship and our marriage where there were temptations that came that before it became a mistake, as he was saying, he confessed the temptation. And is it sometimes scary to hear those temptations? Yes. But the fact that I feel like he has a pretty good track record that every time 

Sathiya (31:17.904)

He’s confessed a temptation, but he hasn’t actually like made the mistake So it’s so that helps to you know, we’re keep trust there but But yeah, like it’s it’s a very powerful thing to do that before It actually happens. Yeah 

Aaron Smith (31:37.0)

So I just want to highlight two 

Aaron Smith (31:38.1)

things that you guys have. mean, what you’re saying is amazing. The first thing is it’s better to confess the temptation than to confess the choice, right? Which both are good. Confessing the choice. The Bible tells us that when we confess our sins, He’s faithful just to forgive us our sins. then confession is God’s way of bringing healing. When we confess our sins to one another, that we may be healed, as James says. 

Sathiya (31:47.81)

Mistake. Yeah. 

Sathiya (31:56.078)

for sure. 

Sathiya (32:00.472)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (32:03.51)

Yes. 

Sathiya (32:05.493)

Yeah. Which that definitely brings healing. Someone confessing to their wife the mistake that they made brings healing for sure. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (32:06.214)

And that healing is what we’re. 

Aaron Smith (32:12.742)

Yeah, 

Aaron Smith (32:13.702)

and it’s something that we all desire. I was just thinking like you see people on death row. They begin to, they want to confess more. They want to, because they want to be freed from that guilt that they’re feeling. They may not be able to find it, but that’s what they’re looking for. And so that confession is like Shalom, what you said is bringing the thing that’s in the darkness into the light and the darkness flees. But I’ve never heard that before. I love that confessing the temptation releases you from the power of it. 

Sathiya (32:23.201)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (32:41.978)

And I think that’s so true. I know that’s true because I’ve experienced that, but I’ve never put those words together before the confessing of the temptation, which convicts me like it because I’m sure you feel temptation probably daily. I feel it every day. I’m tempted every single day in my flesh with many things. so I just I wanted to highlight that for my audience, the confession of the temptation. But then I wanted to 

Sathiya (32:42.478)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (32:56.909)

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (33:11.112)

Bring up a question to you, Shulamma. How can a spouse, often it’s gonna be the wife, but nowadays there’s more and more women and wives are struggling with these same sexual sins. It’s masquerades in other ways sometimes, know, smut novels and, you know, romantic comedies and lots of different kinds of things that allow women to go and fantasize in different ways. But it’s the same thing. It’s a lustful heart. 

Sathiya (33:22.83)

That’s true. 

Sathiya (33:39.438)

Aaron Smith (33:40.318)

It’s seeking that which you 

Sathiya (33:41.027)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (33:41.958)

should not seek. so how can a spouse help in the process of making a space where it’s safe to confess temptation? Because like you said, it can be scary to hear those temptations. And I just know that there are people out there that are like, if a spouse was to go to their wife or husband and say, hey, I just want to confess I’ve been tempted in this, all of a sudden there’s this temptation in your own self to be like, whoa, 

Sathiya (33:53.218)

Hmm, that’s a good question. 

Aaron Smith (34:10.524)

Why are you tempted with that? What kind of person are you? kind of, you know, and instead of recognizing like, we all have passions within us that want to come out. And so how can a spouse support that so that trust can be built, so that freedom can be won, so that it’s a teamwork effort of we’re going to, as you said, when you were dating, I want to support you in this. How can a spouse do that? 

Sathiya (34:12.078)

you 

Sathiya (34:19.383)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (34:22.541)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (34:38.775)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (34:40.858)

Well, I think for first of all, us recognizing our own humanity, like. 

Sathiya (34:49.611)

I’m a human and if I may not be able to relate with the temptations that he has, it doesn’t matter. I’m still a human that I have my own temptations. I have things that I’m struggling with. so it’s like putting myself in his shoes. And that’s what empathy really is. Like, I think that’s actually the key is having empathy for your spouse. it’s like, how could I empathize with them wanting to, you know, they’re attracted to this person at work and they, you know, 

Sathiya (35:19.584)

want to I don’t know if it would go so far to sleep with them but like having those well probably like those are the kinds of temptations that people are having right first of all I think it would be absolutely amazing it would be very hard to hear but I would way rather my husband come to me and tell me he is thinking about sleeping with someone 

Aaron Smith (35:26.216)

thoughts here. 

Sathiya (35:40.001)

than doing it. Like why would I not prefer that? Anyways, just, yeah, recognizing their humanity, recognizing that like they’re a person, they have fleshly desires and even if I can’t relate to it, it’s still valid for them. And so as I’m going back to what I was saying about empathy, 

Aaron Smith (35:40.862)

doing it. 

Sathiya (36:03.616)

empathy and empathy is putting yourself in their shoes is is taking on their struggle and their pain and what they’ve gone through and I think like specifically for this issue I just want to say to all those who are listening all the spouses who may be on the end of having a spouse who might have a porn addiction or might have a 

Sathiya (36:29.11)

you know might have had affairs or or is tempted to or whatever obviously all those things are horrible and very difficult to walk through so i’m not negating that at all but i just want to as an encouragement their behavior is a symptom of something very very deep rooted going on in their heart 

Sathiya (36:55.789)

which I’m sure so many of the listeners know that already. But if you haven’t really thought about it, like it’s so important to include that. 

Sathiya (37:05.918)

in into that time when your spouse comes to you to confess something is you’re not just thinking about what they’re saying, the behavior that they’re saying, you’re thinking about the entire like their trauma history, their childhood, the fact maybe they didn’t feel loved growing up by their parent or whatever and you’re taking that all into account the fact that they’ve been stressed with work or whatever like that’s what true empathy is. 

Sathiya (37:35.965)

it’s being able to fully immerse yourself into that person’s world basically. Like their whole psyche, it sounds kind of weird but you know like truly taking that on because and also like the Bible talks about us bearing each other’s burdens too and yeah and we’re one like spouses are one so it’s like okay 

Sathiya (37:59.983)

How can I truly fully understand this? So I think the first thing I would say is having empathy. when you go into that conversation and they start talking about this and you start to feel the fear rising and it’s like, ooh, that can lead to you feeling a bit defensive or shutting down whatever your thing is or lashing out or judging or all these things. it’s like, first, it’s like, hold on, me put myself in that person’s shoes. 

Sathiya (38:30.26)

everything encompassing that. So I think empathy is like super important and then I think just providing like a space when you respond is just free of judgment and is just just kind and compassionate. 

Sathiya (38:49.027)

Because they’re, the way you, especially if it’s the first time that they’re confessing their temptation, that’s going to set the precedence for every other time. So if you don’t set a precedence of compassion, of love, of understanding, or they feel safe. 

Sathiya (39:07.232)

then they in the future they may not want or they may feel more scared or reluctant. And then guess what? That could I’m not I don’t want to put blame on on anyone, but this is how we support each other. that like this you doing that could potentially prevent them from, you know, taking longer to tell you. And then maybe the temptation grows. And then next thing you know, 

Aaron Smith (39:34.493)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (39:35.011)

would just say that it sets a precedent and so yeah like from the get-go from the very first conversation and if you’ve already had these conversations and it haven’t gone well you can start clean you can even bring your spouse aside and say hey listen I know in the past I’ve felt this way about it and it’s been you know whatever and maybe you found it difficult to come to me after that I want you to know that I’m 

Sathiya (40:01.622)

My mindset has changed and I want to be a safe place for you to be able to tell me when you have a temptation because I need you to feel supported in this because them feeling supported is key to their recovery. Like I can guarantee you that most of the men that Sathya help 

Aaron Smith (40:15.422)

Mm. 

Sathiya (40:23.862)

like have supportive wives or some form of support. Let’s say that the married men, like most of them, I would, I think, and I could be wrong. Like you, can tell me that, but I think having support is, huge. So I don’t know if that fully encompasses the question, but. My new ambassador right here. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (40:41.246)

I think you just found your new master class that you’re gonna… supporting 

Aaron Smith (40:50.171)

the spouses and giving them some tools. 

Sathiya (40:51.535)

Yeah, it’s so key man. It’s so key. It is true and 

Sathiya (40:55.375)

you know when you get into porn addiction research in particular like it’s very very clear that porn addiction is really an intimacy disorder. 

Sathiya (41:04.584)

And when men are viewing pornography with some kind of compulsion, and certainly if it’s at an addictive level, they’re doing it because they’re actually seeking things like connection and intimacy. And it’s not that they’re, it’s not like, well, the spouse is, this is what some people will say like, the spouse must not be giving them something. It’s not that, it’s that they actually don’t have within themselves the ability. They don’t know how to experience healthy intimacy. And so they settle for a fast food version that we call pornography. And when the, 

Sathiya (41:34.401)

the 

Sathiya (41:34.531)

spouse is supportive like Shalom is saying, it’s not just like, okay, I’m not alone and I have support. It actually can be the very resource that heals your heart. Because it gives you an opportunity to experience legitimate intimacy with another person that actually satiates the heart. And to the point that the lures of pornography are still there, but they don’t have the same kind of pull because you’re actually experiencing healthy intimacy with your spouse. So that’s why the support thing she’s talking about is actually so 

Sathiya (42:04.324)

healing and so so important for sexual sin. It literally it’s not just that it gives the strength is that it actually is the solution or it’s at least a major part of the solution in the healing process. And I just want to say that sometimes people won’t confess a temptation or a choice that they’ve made because of shame. Like shame is so huge. Why people keep secrets. Why they you know and they’ll just prolong it. 

Aaron Smith (42:26.526)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (42:34.357)

and over and over and the core of shame is that if you see all of me you’re going to reject me. If you really know what is going on in this space like in my mind in what I’ve done like you’re not gonna love me you’re not gonna you know and I think that’s why going back to what you were saying those conversations when someone is coming to or when my spouse is coming to 

Aaron Smith (42:42.653)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (43:03.68)

confess a temptation is the reason why it’s so important to provide safety is because that actually can break off shame off of them that can actually heal parts of that their hearts that have shame because then it that also loses some of its particles it’s like wait like she she sees this thing inside me that i think is so ugly and or or he and still loves me and still like sees me for who i really am and still 

Sathiya (43:33.227)

it’s like it’s it would be so freeing right like how did you i actually i’m curious i mean sorry i’m not the interviewer but how did you how did you feel like when i 

Aaron Smith (43:39.444)

This is great. 

Sathiya (43:44.111)

gave you that response after the temptation, after you confessed your… And not just that temptation, but future temptations that you’ve had. How does that make you feel and what does it provide for future? Yeah, the scariest part of confession is what is she going to do, right? What is she going to say? How is it going to affect her? I mean, we even have had guys who are like, oh, I couldn’t really tell my wife everything that’s going on because she’s having a really hard season at work or what. I’ve definitely gone through that where I’m like, oh man, is this the right time? It’s so easy to talk yourself out of it. 

Aaron Smith (44:08.616)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (44:14.114)

time you I’ve reached the point where I’m you know confessing something to you I’ve already kind of like faced worst-case scenario head-on at least what I can imagine to be worst-case scenario I’ve realized I think I can survive that I’m gonna do it like I have to just that’s my process like I have to go through that first 

Sathiya (44:33.131)

But I will say like I have confessed things and I’m just like, you know, you kind of have your shoulder a little bit like you’re bracing for impact like because you don’t know what’s going to happen. And it’s it’s a breath of fresh air when she’s like she’s got a little smile on her face or she’s like, that makes sense. You know, I can see why you’re struggling with that. And there’s been one or two times where you’ve said like, I need some time to think about that. You know, like it’s got wheels turning for her. And again, she’s not rejecting me. She’s not calling. 

Sathiya (45:03.104)

names, she’s not storming up and walking out, but she’s basically saying that impacts me and I need some time to make sure I respond appropriately. I think that’s only one time that that’s happened. But even that is a breath of fresh air because it’s like, I’m not being condemned, she doesn’t hate me, the marriage is going to be okay, you know? So those initial responses matter a lot. And I think each time, even in that instance, I think I always tell him how much I appreciate 

Sathiya (45:32.897)

Sathiya (45:33.518)

the fact that he’s coming to me. that’s key to his like… you kind of reinforce it. Yeah. The reality is like he doesn’t have to. He’s a free man. He can make his own choices and he could choose not to do that and it would suck. But like I’m so incredibly thankful that he does that because man, like I don’t know where a marriage would be if these things were kept in his heart and then just they grow like that’s what happens. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (45:35.538)

Mm-hmm. 

Aaron Smith (45:49.81)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (46:01.438)

I want to keep digging into this idea of confession a little bit because you mentioned this, it could be hard, it’s very difficult. There’s a reason it’s very difficult because it’s the exact opposite of what our flesh wants. Our flesh is like, don’t expose. I don’t want to be seen naked. It’s why we want to cover up because we don’t want to be seen. so we’ve been talking about this beautiful way of receiving. 

Sathiya (46:21.538)

Yep. 

Aaron Smith (46:29.022)

you know, with compassion, empathy, you know, with the understanding that you’re a part, you know, as a spouse, you’re a part of the solution. You’re a part of the making a wholeness and breaking off the shame. That’s beautiful. But there’s going to be a lot of men listening and a lot of women listening and be like, okay, that’s great. My spouse would not respond that way. And I’ve had this conversation with men in the past. And they just break down crying because I know exactly how they feel. They’re like, I can’t. 

Sathiya (46:47.104)

Right, I was thinking the same thing. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (46:58.118)

If I share this, they’re going to, you know, they’re going to blow up on me. They’re going to be feel so broken. They’re going to feel so hurt, which is true. And I have often shared and so that so they speak to this if you want. I’d love for you to actually. For me, I had to get to a point of recognizing that my confession was out of obedience to this, the Holy Spirit in me, not out of whether or not my spouse is going to respond the way I want. 

Sathiya (47:22.99)

Mmm. 

Sathiya (47:27.661)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (47:28.034)

and 

Aaron Smith (47:28.414)

getting to that point of like, I love God and this sin, yes, it’s against my wife and it’s against my own body, but it’s against Christ. I’ve sinned against, you know, this sin killed Jesus. So getting to a point of recognizing that and then going to my spouse, even in my fear, even in my trepidation, even in my shame, and confessing to her. 

Sathiya (47:39.694)

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (47:55.366)

And this is on the side of I have, you know, when I did make the mistake, when I did choose sin, going and confessing to her regardless of her response and encouraging men to confess without controlling the response because there’s always this like, Hey, it was, it was only a little bit like, you know, don’t get so mad at me. Like I’ve had to practice confessing and then shutting up. 

Sathiya (48:00.513)

Yep. 

Sathiya (48:03.976)

Mm-hmm. That’s so good. 

Sathiya (48:23.446)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (48:23.678)

because 

Aaron Smith (48:24.118)

my wife gets to feel the pain of that. I mean, it’s that I want her to, of course, but the fact is, since we’re one, that pain, that brokenness already exists whether she knows it or not. That spiritual damage has happened whether she knows it or not. So the confession, all that’s allowing is her to actually recognize it, which is also hard. And that’s a hard thing for men to swallow. That’s a hard thing for… 

Sathiya (48:30.083)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (48:43.681)

Mm-hmm. 

Aaron Smith (48:53.47)

Aaron Smith (48:53.79)

Probably anyone, women too. Again, I haven’t dealt much with women dealing with this, but I know it’s becoming more prevalent. But that recognition of the confession is regardless of the response because of my love for Christ, because of my obedience to the Spirit and me convicting my heart. What do have to say about that? 

Sathiya (48:59.895)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (49:05.58)

Yes. So true. That’s… 

Sathiya (49:13.926)

I mean, yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. think you confess because it’s the right thing to do. And I think you need to figure out what it’s going to take for you to do it. know, the time scales is something that guys often forget about. By the time you as a guy are confessing, you’ve thought about it. You probably talked yourself out of it a hundred times before you finally talked yourself into it. You’ve been able to maybe talk about it with even another guy. There’s been some processing, but… 

Aaron Smith (49:34.376)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (49:42.925)

Your spouse is kind of hearing it for the first time, right? So she, it’s new information. So guys are kind of forgetting, that’s why guys will do this. And then they say, well, it’s not that big of a deal. And they have all these things they want to share to kind of give context and frame it. Yeah, minimize it. And maybe they’re not even minimizing it. Maybe they’re providing explanations and whatever, whatever. But like, you just kind of like punched your wife in the face, you know, metaphorically. And then you’re basically saying like, hey, it doesn’t hurt that bad because, you 

Aaron Smith (49:57.201)

Minimize. 

Sathiya (50:12.848)

of XYZ and it’s like, no, that hurt, know, like that hurt. her a minute, you know, and a minute in this case might actually be days, you know, maybe she needs a little bit of time. I’ll give you a really good example of this. Yeah, or months, who knows how long it takes. So we had a client, he just joined the program beginning of 2025 and he’s on a call with me and it was just a Q &A time, I think. So he was asking, 

Aaron Smith (50:21.374)

yeah. 

Sathiya (50:38.574)

You know, I’m just realizing as I kind of get deeper into the program that there’s still some parts of my story that my wife doesn’t know. So I was like, okay, does your wife know you’re in the program? And he’s like, yeah, yeah, she knows I’m in the program. Okay, to start. But he’s like, but there was some things I did in the past and it was specifically when he was, he was employed, he had a secretary. Again, going back to how the wife always knows the wife had a weird feeling about the secretary and not that there was anything going on, but she, but he kind of had, she had this concern that 

Aaron Smith (50:45.693)

Hmm. 

Sathiya (51:08.528)

like there was some attraction there. She was kind of a pretty young woman and whatever. so she had asked him like, hey, do you think she’s attractive? And he said no. And have you ever had feelings for her? And he said no. There was a bunch of things that he had denied in addition to some things around his porn consumption. So he’s basically letting us know on the call, there’s a couple of things that I haven’t talked to her about it. And I said, okay, but what does she know? And it turns out he was doing basically the equivalent of Chinese torture, right? Chinese torture is like dripping one drop of 

Aaron Smith (51:19.964)

Hmm. 

Aaron Smith (51:37.362)

The drip, drip, drip, yep. 

Sathiya (51:38.461)

Yeah, exactly. You got it. So 

Aaron Smith (51:40.187)

Trickling it over time. 

Sathiya (51:41.487)

Yeah, 

Sathiya (51:42.047)

so this is something that we can be really notorious for doing as guys because we think we’re doing the right thing. We’re protecting our wife’s heart. Well, I’ll only tell her 30 % because if I told her 100 % that would destroy her, 30 % is going to hurt, but at least I’ve kind of like minimized the impact and then I’ll tell another 30%. What they don’t realize is you end up creating this trauma response in your wife because she never knows when she actually will know everything. And that can be a really debilitating place to be. It’s almost impossible to build any trust. 

Aaron Smith (52:06.046)

you 

Sathiya (52:11.44)

you ultimately the wife is just constantly wondering when I mean am I gonna get something else another blow another whatever So I basically told him I explained what he’s doing You know I think he understood that and I said your wife needs to know everything and he said yeah But this was like a long time ago, and I’m like yes But you’ve talked about this season and you painted a completely different picture than what actually happened So she’s in the dark, and you were the one who consciously put her in there So I could tell he was like he understood what I was saying and it’s not that he disagreed with it, but he was 

Aaron Smith (52:26.014)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (52:41.481)

agreeing to do it either. 

Aaron Smith (52:43.314)

yeah, this flash was like, nup. 

Aaron Smith (52:44.858)

I’m not doing that. 

Sathiya (52:45.23)

Yeah, exactly. 

Sathiya (52:47.07)

Now this was only like, at the time that we’re recording this, I think, I’m gonna say this is two weeks ago, maybe two and a half weeks ago. And I’m doing the group call that he’s a part of, but he actually has a different one-on-one coach. So I saw his one-on-one coach post in, we have a Slack channel that has like client wins, just to like keep people reminded of why we do what we do, you know. So we’re constantly reading through these wins. And I just saw his name would come up and it was like, you know, so-and-so did a disclosure with his wife. It went really, 

Sathiya (53:15.184)

Well, she handled it. She responded better than he was expecting. She’s still really upset, but they’re working things through that out of that and I was like, oh wow, that’s cool. Like something happened like he something about the advice came to heart. So this morning he was on a coaching call this morning. So I’m like, dude, tell me everything like I want to hear all of it. And basically they so he thought more about it. He’s like, okay, I’m going to tell her but you know, he’s like, I want to talk to her therapist first. She’s seen a therapist and see what she thinks about it. So he talks to the therapist. The therapist is like, yeah, you need to tell her why 

Sathiya (53:45.057)

don’t 

Sathiya (53:45.277)

you tell her an evening before she meets with me?” And he’s like, okay, that sounds good. That would be good timing. Then she could go and process it and some sort of plan in place that has her best interests in mind. So the story he was telling me is he thought the next appointment was in like a month. So he thought he had all this time. And then one day he was talking to her. was like a Monday and he’s like, hey, what are you up to tonight? And she’s like, oh, nothing. I just gotta get ready for my appointment tomorrow and whatever. And he’s like, what? 

Aaron Smith (54:12.11)

out. 

Aaron Smith (54:13.645)

He wasn’t ready. 

Sathiya (54:15.06)

Yeah, it was totally caught off guard. So they put the kids down. They have the conversation And I told him I’m like that that’s like that decision right there So he decides to have the conversation that alone is just the mark of like, okay You actually get that you need to take ownership for this thing because I’ve seen guys in this position before right? They kind of get caught off guard the time instead than they thought and then they talk themselves out of it I’d have time to prepare and it’s this constant procrastination, but he just tackled it head-on She was really upset and he said like it 

Sathiya (54:44.91)

it’s been admittedly like it’s been a pretty hard week. And I told him, awesome, because it’s when they’re not upset, that’s when you really need to be concerned because it means she’s already checked out. So I think to the confession thing, like again, this is a story where it’s a very good example of this is like kind of up and down bumpy. It’s not perfectly done, but. 

Sathiya (55:05.442)

What actually got him to a place where his wife now knows everything, everything’s in the light, there’s nothing in the dark, was he took ownership of it. It didn’t have to be perfect. And he was willing to face whatever the consequences might be of it. So I think that’s what really good, like strong confession looks like is it’s thorough. I think if you have a third party involved, there’s some wisdom in that. If they’re the right third party, I think that can be really useful. And I think at the end of the day, it’s just taking ownership. 

Sathiya (55:35.329)

And the cool thing about this with the therapist is he didn’t feel any pressure to process or ask us. It was literally just, like you said, you confess and you keep your mouth shut. And then they’re still having conversations. They still have stuff they need to figure out for sure. It’s not all daisies and roses, but at least now they can start on a totally solid foundation of the truth that’s been told and the trust that she knows everything that there is to know. 

Aaron Smith (56:01.054)

That’s so good. All of this is so good. And what’s the name of your course again and what you do? 

Sathiya (56:08.014)

Sathiya (56:08.575)

Yeah, Deep Clean. Deep Clean Coaching is what we do. That’s name of the program and the system that we built and that’s kind of how we branded the ministry as well. 

Aaron Smith (56:17.086)

Well, it’s so necessary. have, unfortunately, that the enemy has infiltrated the church. I think it’s in Ephesians, it says, you know, there should not even be a hint of sexual morality amongst believers, which is proper. Like the proper way that believers should be walking should be impurity. And with the rise of social media and digital content in our phones and how accessible it is, for me, like I had to remove all the social media apps from my phone. 

Sathiya (56:28.878)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (56:33.176)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (56:47.154)

And even when I go on my computer, I’m not even looking for something and then it shows me something and it pops up and I’m like, crap. And so temptation, already I know it’s in my heart. I know the propensities I have and the cravings that I can have as a man and things that I’ve dealt with through my history of porn addiction. And it’s necessary that as men and women in the church that we take it seriously. 

Sathiya (56:55.128)

Yeah, yeah. 

Aaron Smith (57:15.196)

and we don’t minimize it and we see it as something that needs to be killed. Like it needs to be like totally utterly destroyed. the thing I think we can take away from this conversation the most is what Shalama was saying, that things, the darkness dies when it’s brought into the light. Like the darkness doesn’t exist in the light. Where the light is, the darkness flees and they can’t exist together. And so that power of 

Sathiya (57:15.596)

Yeah. Absolutely, 

Sathiya (57:39.212)

Yeah. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (57:43.492)

of confession, the power of bringing things to light and making sure that we recognize that our love for our Savior motivates us to move that direction of like, need to kill this. I need to kill this dead, gone. I need to move it out of my life. need to speak it into the light and say, this is something that’s in my heart. This is something I struggle with. This is something that I deal with and I want to be free from it. then, Sathya, you said this in the beginning, reading the promises of God. 

Sathiya (57:43.682)

Hmm. 

Sathiya (57:56.033)

Yep. 

Aaron Smith (58:10.878)

I did this too when I was deep in the addiction to pornography. I would read what it says in 1 Corinthians 10, 13 and I’d be like, that’s not true. Maybe that’s true for someone else, but it is true. Believing the promises of God, not that they will be true one day, that if you just did this, this, and this, they’re true. No, they’re true now. And the problem is we have a belief issue. We have a belief problem, as the man says. 

Sathiya (58:19.202)

Yeah, right. God provides a way out when you’re tempted, 

Sathiya (58:33.58)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (58:40.134)

I believe but help my unbelief. 

Sathiya (58:41.952)

Yeah, yeah, I think we have a belief problem and I think we have a lack of role model problem as well in the church, you know, because I think if you’re the only person in a room of a hundred guys who struggle with pornography, you’re probably gonna be pretty inspired. You’re probably gonna believe that it’s possible because you’re the only person struggling. But when… 

Aaron Smith (58:47.318)

yes, I was thinking about that. 

Aaron Smith (58:58.428)

Yep. 

Sathiya (58:59.776)

A hundred guys are struggling and there’s only one dude who’s figured it out. The dude’s an anomaly, right? Like he’s just some freak of nature that somehow got this thing mastered. And that’s kind what the local church looks like right now. So I think, you know, even with the work we’re doing, like we were dreaming about men who are role models in the community showing, hey, the scriptural standards are actually attainable. And not only are they attainable, they’re true. Yeah. And look at how great your life is when you live by them. That’s kind of what I’m dreaming of. Like I’m only one person. I’m fortunate to read. 

Aaron Smith (59:16.466)

Mm-hmm. 

Aaron Smith (59:20.87)

and are true. 

Sathiya (59:29.68)

reach thousands of people every week between the platforms, but it’s still not enough. There’s so many more people that need to hear it. So we’re trying to proliferate more of these stories, more of guys that are walking in holiness and integrity and really modeling this to the people of God so that we can rise up as a church and so that Jesus can come back for a bride that is spotless and without blemish or wrinkle like it says in scripture. Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (59:37.042)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (59:51.082)

yeah. 

Aaron Smith (59:53.244)

I just want to close with this concept. One of the reasons I struggle with the concept of Everyman’s Battle, that book that came out years ago, I never finished reading it. I started reading it and I put it down. That was one of the reasons, one of the things that helped keep me in my sin was believing that everyone was struggling with the same sin and that there was no freedom attainable. 

Sathiya (01:00:03.501)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (01:00:20.318)

Because that’s kind of what you’re just talking about. There is no actual freedom. Everyone I talk to would say, well, yeah, you just got to work harder, get more distance between the times that you mess up and just mess up less. That’s workspace salvation. That’s not even the gospel. The gospel says, no, freedom crisis is at you free. Stand firm and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. I don’t believe it’s every man’s battle. I believe it’s many men’s battle. 

Sathiya (01:00:35.694)

Yeah, right. 

Sathiya (01:00:41.134)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (01:00:49.229)

Hmm. 

Aaron Smith (01:00:49.278)

I that 

Aaron Smith (01:00:49.698)

many men struggle with this idea. I believe that all men and women in the world struggle with the flesh. It’s like just biblical. Like we have a flesh and we have the spirit and they’re at odds with each other. So I just want to encourage… ahead. 

Sathiya (01:01:00.494)

Yeah. Yeah. And lots of women struggle with sorry lots of 

Sathiya (01:01:06.914)

women struggle with porn as well and masturbation. So yeah. Yeah. Not just a flesh thing. 

Aaron Smith (01:01:10.18)

Yeah. Well, and women’s, 

Aaron Smith (01:01:12.571)

mean, even before pornography and masturbation, that becoming a thing that’s now in the women’s world, women struggle with so many other things like fantasy. I’m struggling with the grass is greener the side, fantasizing with like, that other man would have would be way better for me because he would take care of me better. Even if it’s not lustful or sexual in nature, it’s still the same thing. 

Sathiya (01:01:34.796)

Yeah. 

Aaron Smith (01:01:37.35)

It’s the same flesh response of craving something outside of the realm of what we should be craving and desiring, outside of health, outside of wholeness. And so, good. 

Sathiya (01:01:37.868)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (01:01:42.337)

Yeah, yeah, so true. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, 

Sathiya (01:01:48.671)

I wanted to say something about what you were saying about the light walking in the light and what we were talking about earlier, but connected to everything we’re in in that that pursuit of freedom that like. 

Aaron Smith (01:01:54.312)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (01:02:06.606)

the concept of wanting to experience freedom. So I’m gonna focus so much on like the issue, right? Rather than focusing on the light, like the… 

Aaron Smith (01:02:15.379)

Mm-hmm. 

Aaron Smith (01:02:20.124)

Yeah, I’m gonna look in the darkness. 

Sathiya (01:02:23.072)

Yeah, the 

Aaron Smith (01:02:23.525)

You’re like, no actually look in the light. 

Sathiya (01:02:25.484)

closer you go towards the light, the further away you’ll get from the darkness. I think sometimes we we what we put water, pour water onto the the scene and like the thing like we’re focusing all of our energy and our attention on how do I get free of this? And it’s like that that thing that you hear like, OK, if you think of a perp, don’t think of a purple elephant. 

Aaron Smith (01:02:30.154)

praise God. 

Sathiya (01:02:45.742)

What are you going to think of a purple elephant? So like, it’s like the word of God says like, so in the spirit, because you’ll reap in the spirit. If you sow in the flesh, you’ll reap the flesh. So it’s like, basically, I’m it’s I know it’s not necessarily like a simple formula, but I think it’s a good, a good tool of like, let me just focus my thought and my energy and my attention on the things of the spirit. 

Aaron Smith (01:02:45.791)

Great. Yep. 

Sathiya (01:03:12.052)

and stop the negative self-talk, stop the, why can’t I get free of this? How can I get free? It’s like, let me just get closer to the light. And I know that there’s a lot more to that, because obviously if that’s all it was, maybe a lot more people would be free. I know there’s dealing with, know, hurts from the past and like all that. That’s why Sathya started in the beginning. But yeah, like I just wanted to say that because I just felt like… 

Sathiya (01:03:42.488)

There’s freedom in that. That breaks the power. focusing on the light. Honestly, there’s things that I’ve struggled with that that’s how I overcame too. 

Aaron Smith (01:03:56.542)

Well, what you’re 

Aaron Smith (01:03:57.062)

saying is absolutely true. There’s been studies on this. I’m sure, Cynthia, that talks about these things. But Joe Rogan just did an episode several months ago with, I can’t remember her name, lady that wrote a book on how we’re over-therapied. We’re over. And she mentions how so many people are, they tend to focus on their problems over and over and over again, which is meditation. That’s when the Bible speaks of meditation. That’s what that is, is you’re chewing 

Sathiya (01:04:11.278)

Yeah, it’s true. 

Sathiya (01:04:23.296)

Yeah, that’s right. 

Aaron Smith (01:04:25.886)

on something over and over and over again so that it becomes digested. And we chew on the negative and God’s like, whoa, I want you to think on these things. I want you to think on heavenly things. want you to think on… and so what comes into us and what fills our hearts is what comes out of us. So I think you hit the nail on the head. So, Thea, I think you have a new partner in your ministry and I think she’s going to be… Oh, man. 

Sathiya (01:04:29.677)

Yeah. 

Sathiya (01:04:35.244)

these things. It’s lovely. 

Sathiya (01:04:42.702)

Yep. 

Sathiya (01:04:48.31)

I think so. We got a new face of the brand. Let’s go. 

Aaron Smith (01:04:52.742)

Is there any last 

Aaron Smith (01:04:53.713)

things you’d like to share before we close out? think this was an amazing conversation, but if you want to encourage with anything else or share where they can find you guys. 

Sathiya (01:05:00.206)

You go first. I’ll think. 

Sathiya (01:05:03.806)

Yeah, you know, one thing I’ve been sharing on podcasts a little bit more lately, like, I mean, we’ve been podcasting for a few years. I know you guys, you guys have been around a lot longer than us doing this. 

Aaron Smith (01:05:11.9)

Yeah, but I’m sure 

Aaron Smith (01:05:12.502)

you’ve been on way more podcasts. I was looking at you. You’re on a lot of podcasts. It’s awesome. 

Sathiya (01:05:16.862)

Yeah, yeah, 

Sathiya (01:05:17.762)

I’ve been on a lot over the years, very fortunate. I’m also a big podcast consumer, so one thing I wanna say to anybody who’s made it to this part of the interview, number one, well done for making it to the end. 

Aaron Smith (01:05:27.026)

Congratulations. 

Sathiya (01:05:28.232)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we’ve been quoting the book of James. One of my favorite verses out of James is that faith without works is dead. And I think in the day, the information age and the kind of consumer world that we live in, it’s very easy to just take in all this information and say, yeah, that was a good point. I learned something. And then you go to the next episode, you go to the next thing. And I always just challenge listeners at this point, hey, what’s like one action point? What’s one thing that you can take away from this that could actually convert into some sort of action in your marriage, in your relationship? 

Aaron Smith (01:05:34.396)

Mm-hmm. 

Sathiya (01:05:58.109)

with God or in your pursuit of freedom from addiction. If you can convert something into action, think that’s where know faith without works is dead but faith with works is deadly. It can be so powerful to just take one thing that really stuck with you today and act on it and that’d be my final encouragement and if people want to find out more obviously about what we do the podcast is called Man Within. We’ve had you on there Aaron you had a great interview, lots of other content and I do a lot of solo cast as well we do about four episodes a week just to really be a constant voice. 

Sathiya (01:06:27.952)

of inspiration and encouragement to guys struggling with sexual sin so they can go check that out too if they want more. Yeah and I don’t really feel like I have anything to say but I really felt um if it’s okay with you would I be able to just pray over the listeners? Yeah I just felt uh just a prompting so 

Aaron Smith (01:06:43.292)

Absolutely. Love that. 

Sathiya (01:06:48.258)

Father, thank you so much for this time that we get to just have this conversation God and hopefully bring some form of of help and support and 

Sathiya (01:07:00.812)

Yeah, just advice for those listening. Father, I thank you for every single person right now that is listening to this podcast. I thank you for their lives, for their marriages, their relationships, their families, their kids, just everything that encompasses who they are. God, I thank you for, God, just the journeys that you’re taking them on, and I ask, Holy Spirit, that you would come right now. 

Sathiya (01:07:27.914)

and just surround them in their in their car in their room wherever they are. 

Sathiya (01:07:34.273)

Surround them with your presence and I gotta ask that you would reveal yourself to them in a way that they have never experienced before in this in this season of their lives God and that That this will be a season of freedom and breakthrough over over the ones listening especially for those who might be Currently going through a very difficult struggle in a very difficult time. I just thank you God that that today is a 

Sathiya (01:08:04.176)

of freedom, today is the day of breakthrough, today is the day of new life and redemption and new hope in Jesus name and I thank you Lord God that you’re breathing new life into these people’s hearts and I just want to speak to the men specifically God that you’re breathing new life into their lungs, new life into their spirits and I even just thank you God that your voice speaks over them and says 

Sathiya (01:08:34.136)

come alive, come alive. Thank you Jesus that that 

Sathiya (01:08:38.772)

in you we can come alive that we can find new hope and new strength and new life. And so I just thank you Lord God for freedom in the name of Jesus and for restoration in marriages, restoration in families. And I just want to encourage just every single person that there is new hope in Jesus. There is new life in Jesus and you can start over. You can have a fresh start. Therefore if anyone is in crisis, a new creation, all things have passed away and behold 

Sathiya (01:09:08.726)

All things have become new. I’m not sure the exact scripture, but you can look it up. And so that is a promise that the Lord gives you. so don’t listen to the lies that say it’s too late or how am going to get free and what’s the point? But God, just thank you for new hope and that today is a day of freedom. Yeah. And I just want to bless you guys like you can do it. We believe in you. And yeah, just God bless you guys. 

Aaron Smith (01:09:36.41)

Amen. That was awesome. So the Shaloma, you guys are awesome. pray that God blesses you guys. And I also the action I would want to take is to go check out your your workshops and your courses. Is it is it also coaching to? 

Sathiya (01:09:41.442)

He he. 

Sathiya (01:09:49.529)

No, thanks man. 

Sathiya (01:09:52.164)

Yeah, yeah, we have a full on coaching program for people who are serious about this stuff. So, yeah, you can find it a lot on the website or we talk about it more on the podcast. Either of those are great. 

Aaron Smith (01:09:55.55)

Amazing. 

Aaron Smith (01:10:02.154)

I’ll put all the links for my listeners in the show notes and I just pray everyone finds the freedom that God has provided for us on the cross with Jesus Christ. Thank you guys, God bless, thank you so much for being on the show.