Reigniting Intimacy in Christian Marriage – Interview with Alex And Kadi Dutton

Hey, Mary after God fam. This is Aaron Smith with the Marriage After God Podcast. What you’re about to hear is an interview with Alex and Katie Dutton. They’re the founders of Every Love intimates.com, which is a subscription box service to help married couples, Christian, married couples grow on their intimacy and their sex life. And so I got to have an awesome conversation with them. This couple loves the Lord and they love marriage, and they desire to just encourage us to be intimate, to be transparent, to have better communication about this subject in our marriages. And so you’re actually, this is the first interview that I’ve done on this podcast, and we’re going to be doing a lot more interviews like this. So I pray that you enjoy this. I pray that it’s a blessing to your marriage. So sit back and enjoy my conversation with Alex and Katie Dutton. Hey, I’m

Aaron. And I’m Jennifer.

And we’re the hosts of the Marriage After God podcast. Our desire is to help you cultivate a marriage that chases boldly after God’s will for your life together.

We want to invite you to subscribe to our show wherever you watch or listen.

We are so glad you’re here and we pray that our discussion truly blesses you and your marriage.

Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast,

Alex and Katie Dutton, welcome to the Marriage After God podcast. How are you guys? Doing

Great, Aaron. Thank you so much for having us. We’re super excited.

Awesome. My audience is probably not going to know you guys. I just learned about you guys recently. You guys reached out to me through Instagram, which I’m really appreciative of and I thought it was awesome and I saw what you guys are doing and I thought I’m going to reach out to them and see if they want to be interviewed. So here we are. Why don’t we start off with you sharing a little bit of your story. How long have you married? Maybe a little bit of how you guys met. Do you have kids? What do you guys do for work?

Well, I’ll share how we met because it’s funny and people make fun of me for it. We met online, Katie was my one and only online date. I met her through Bumble. It was a dating app. But yeah, she was my one and only girl I talked to. I hopped on Bumble one night, talked to Katie the next night, deleted the app the next day, pretty much. But a funny thing about it is Katie’s name is obviously Katie, but it’s spelled different. It’s spelled KADI. So I talked to her for about two weeks before we were able to meet up in person and

On the phone too, not just texting.

Yeah, I would call her, I didn’t know how to say her name because it doesn’t look like Katie unless you were, it looks like maybe

Caddy.

So I thought it was caddy, but I was scared to say it. So we talked on

Guess, you guess Katie though. You did good.

I know, but when we finally, so two weeks after we started talking, I was like, we went through a whole date. We were, you

Waited until we met in person and talked for two hours.

We talked for two, three hours and we ended before we left. I was like, by the way, this is embarrassing, but what’s your name? How do you say it? Oh my God. So I dunno. People always make fun of me for that, but I didn’t know how to say her name for the first two weeks of getting to know each other. But yeah. Yeah, fast forward. We were engaged in seven months, married five months later. We were married for about a year and then we got pregnant. Now we have two little babies. We have two kids. We have a 3-year-old and a seven month old.

18 months, 18 month old. She just turned 18 months.

Yep. Yeah, so they keep us very busy.

Yeah, we’re kind of all over the place. We moved three times since getting married already three,

Five years. Yeah, starting a business. Got four different jobs in that time. Katie was a public teacher for five years, but once we got married she,

Yeah, I’ve always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, so as soon as he was going to be the paycheck I quit.

Yeah, amazing. That’s us in a nutshell. And then we started our business three years ago and just been doing that since trying to help out Christian couples, non-Christian couples, just throwing out boxes. So yeah.

So you guys have been married, what, four years?

Five years. Five years, yeah.

Oh, five years. Okay. I was trying to calculate, I was like, together you had kids. So five years. That’s amazing. And then how soon after you guys got married did you guys start this business? It’s every Love intimates.com, right?

Yep. Every Love intimates. That’s our Instagram too. You can check us out there. But two years,

About two years into marriage, we started the business.

Yeah, about two years, three years ago. Yep.

Awesome. And so the business you guys started, it’s a Bucks subscription for intimacy and you guys sent me one, I don’t even think, I think you did it before even we chatted on, we did Instagram, you guys found our address and sent it to us. I remember getting in the mail and I was like, who sent this? And it was very interesting and it was very neat because of how unique it was. And you actually got my wife’s size exactly right, which I thought was amazing.

Hey, there we go.

Yeah,

That was an accident. We did not stalk you

That thoroughly. Yes, that was our warehouse manager. She packed those boxes, so she got lucky.

Still very impressive. But you guys started this business slash ministry out of some issues that were going on early on in your marriage. Can you share some of that?

Yeah, I mean I think it stemmed from Katie’s love language is huge on gifts. She loves getting gifts. When we first got married, she started asking me like, Hey, can you buy us some lingerie or an intimacy items she would ask about? And so I was like, heck yeah, I want to do that. I want you to wear more lingerie. So of course I went to all the websites I was surfing. Didn’t really have a problem at first with that. And I don’t think I ever anything because after probably four or five websites, I started getting a little convicted about what I was looking at. Even though Katie had asked me to do it. These websites were super explicit.

You guys know how they are. And I just didn’t even think it through more of from a woman’s perspective and not really talking it through with you beforehand. I just wanted a nice gift and then didn’t realize kind of the internal battle that was going on there for you to honor our marriage. So that’s kind of where the need stemmed from. He finally, a year and a half into probably a year into marriage said, Hey, I don’t feel comfortable looking at these sites. I don’t want to get these emails. I don’t want to have that temptation to compare anything or to see someone else in something that just kind of messes up the marriage aspect of why we were wanting to buy the gift. And so I was like, well, hey, that makes perfect sense. Let’s see if we can find some resources where we could shop.

(06:59)
And it was very hard to find. We wanted to learn more. I know a lot of people who have grown up in faith-based homes don’t necessarily get much sex education either. And honestly, a lot of people in the world, the sex education that you get, even if you didn’t grow up in a faith-based home is horrible. So no one really comes into marriage with a good understanding or very few people come into marriage with a good understanding of what sexuality should look like and how that should impact your marriage for the glory of God and for the good of your marriage. And so we were kind of in that boat going, Hey, we want to spice up our marriage. We want to pursue each other in this area. We want to get better at intimacy. We want to give each other gifts and plan sexy date nights, but we don’t really know where to start. Everything we Google feels like bachelor party or college break party.

(07:55)
We want this to feel classy. We don’t want to compromise our values as Christians. And Alex has always had a passion. God has always put on his heart to be an entrepreneur. So he’s also a nurse. Yeah, this is unpacking everything, but his profession is a nurse right now. But he has always wanted to also be an entrepreneur. And in both of those fields, I see that creative aspect of helping other people and serving people. And so by providing, basically he had a heart for our marriage first and the struggle that caused of not having the resources we needed early on. And then that just blossomed into, hey, so many other Christian couples and couples in general need these resources and they need the knowledge of how to apply. So many people talk about how to be a good wife and a good husband in most aspects of life, but the sex aspect is not talked about near as much. Then those are talking about it don’t necessarily have the physical resources like the products to apply, to just have fun in your marriage and to celebrate what God’s given us as a gift. And that’s kind of where the business was born was from our own need. And then seeing that it just spread to all these other people who needed it too.

So let’s take us a step back. You brought up how you, Katie, you were like, Hey, I want gifts and would you get me some lingerie? And these are things that you were considering, but before that, was there something that was going on just interpersonally in your relationship with sex and intimacy? Was there any discord? Was there any struggles? Was this something that everything was fine but then you wanted to make it better? Or was it something that you felt was broken? You talked about not having much early education. Our parents probably didn’t know how to do it very well. Real quick, how old are you guys?

I’m 31. I’m 28.

Okay. So you guys one generation behind me, but even my generation, I feel like I didn’t hear much about it. There was a lot of negative conversation about it of like, sex is dirty, sex is sinful, sex is bad. But when you get married, sex is good and it’s got to be perfect and it’s going to work out. My wife and I actually struggled with sex earlier on for four and a half years sex. It was not good. It didn’t work. And so that caused a lot of issues for us. Was that something similar in your marriage that first two years? Was there a lot of confusion, a lot of struggle, a lot of frustration? Or was it fine and you just wanted to make it better?

You can be okay. I’m asking him permission to share something. Well, so yeah, definitely. I think definitely from that perspective of abstain and then all of a sudden the floodgates are open. To be perfectly honest, Alex and I, we did not have sexual intercourse before marriage, but we did kind of flirt around with some things that we shouldn’t have done in our dating life. And from the woman’s perspective, once you understand sexuality and its fullness and intimacy, all of that is a part of God’s design for intimacy that is supposed to be only within marriage. And so I think that did some harm to once we got married, the stuff that we had done before we were married felt very good for both of us, but he was really, really holding out. And when we got married and we did include intercourse initially, it was painful and uncomfortable for me. We didn’t know how to figure that out quite right away. And that for so many people, that’s a big focus of sex is just getting straight to intercourse,

Especially men

Especially. Yeah, well and just in general, that’s kind of the expectation that a lot of the media pushes and that people just kind of see if they don’t have a lot of knowledge in that area. And so it went from, Hey, we’re doing just a few soft things that both of us like that I really enjoy. So we both had pretty matched desire for intimacy before marriage and we were setting a barrier at a certain point. And then when we got married and everything was up for grabs, it caused me to really recoil. And so I think gifts and fun stuff and that aspect was kind of a way of me saying, Hey, I do want to work on this with you, and I want it to be in a way where I feel before I understood how we could be emotionally and physically on the same page more in the bedroom, I think the gift aspect was more of a safe way for us to still walk away into intimacy without feeling like we were jumping straight for the areas where we were really struggling.

Alex, do you feel like, it sounds like you guys were, if we want to talk about purity, you weren’t very pure before you were married. Was there shame and guilt that came along with that? I would imagine when we walk in certain things, did you guys go into marriage looking back and feel shame and guilt from how you worked before marriage? And did that trace into your marriage early on?

I don’t know. I wouldn’t say shame and guilt. I mean,

I think there was some regret and definitely repentance. And I think that effect of the expectation of what sex would be and then realizing that we still had so much work to do and that I think things would’ve been a lot easier had we been educated more. And then had we completely drawn a much harder line before marriage,

And I’ll give you an example of something that happened that we look back and go, oh man, that was tough. Our premarital counselor was amazing, but when it came to setting up expectations with sex, the one thing we said, and this was the one question he asked, he said, what are your expectations like for frequency after you’re married? Frequency? And it was an awkward moment. We had not talked about that at all, and we should have looking back, and I said four to five times a week, and Katie bursts out laughing in our counseling session and she goes one to two times a month. And our counselor goes, you guys should probably figure that out. And that was, it went out, we

Done. And then we did not figure that out. We did

Not figure it out

At that point.

So I think that was expectations of frequency was I would say one of the biggest hurdles for us to overcome in the first couple of years, which we’re doing a lot better at now, but I think that’s something a lot of people struggle with,

Especially

With having different drives.

And to go too much off on a tangent, the drive thing, I feel like people talk so much about, oh, if I have a high drive or a low drive, so much of those, I do believe there’s some physical aspects to that, but so much of that is a label that boxes you in and limits your ability to just love your spouse and to be open to receiving and giving any type of physical, emotional, sexual affection. It does not necessarily, I don’t think it necessarily helps in every scenario because different seasons of your life as you go through, what am I thinking of, menopause as you go through pregnancy, men post, yeah, health issues, postpartum, all of these things are going to affect

Lots of different seasons.

And then just stressors in life and work. Is your marriage good on other areas? Are you busy with your kids? There’s so many things that happen that will affect even day to day where your drive is at. And so kind of boxing yourself into those and I don’t know, I feel like that can cause a damper on things instead of just going with the flow and checking in with your spouse regularly to figure out where you guys are at, what you need and how you can meet each other’s needs there.

And I would jump on that and say something we’ve learned. Sorry to get so far ahead. Something we’ve learned that’s been huge for us is check-ins, even weekly check-ins monthly and specifically talking about intimacy during those, we changed what our needs are from sometimes month to month, just depending after we had our daughter, it felt like every month it was changing what Katie wanted, what I wanted,

What was even physically possible at the time.

So we always encourage all the couples that we work with and that talk to us. You should be checking in very often. It’s not a once a year thing. It should be a least once a month thing where you just have, it doesn’t have to be a huge discussion, but just a quick, we have these four questions that we have couples go over once a month. But yeah, that’s something we’ve learned that’s been huge.

I think that is huge. We’re talking about sex. It’s a very physical, it’s biological. It’s something that God created. It’s beautiful. Whether we were told that or not, whether we have experienced that or not, the truth is that’s how God intended it and that’s how he designed it. I was thinking about this last night when I was thinking about our interview for today. I thought about our fruit trees on the back and how apples, and we have strawberry plants and we have all these delicious fruits. God didn’t have to make them look good or taste good, but he does. And it’s a good thing that he gave us sex. We have these, you were talking about drives, and it’s something that is good and it feels good and it tastes good and it looks good and reacts. It plays on every sense that God has given us.

(18:06)
And the part of it that we forget often is the intimate part of it because we could just operate in just the biological, just the physical need, which is very good and necessary, but we’re spiritual beings and God desires us what you were just talking about to be one with each other. And the largest part of that is communication on it. And I would imagine most couples don’t talk about this. There’s just an assumption, kind of like your premarital counseling is like, well, you should probably discuss that. And then that was it. It’s like, well, we’re going to figure out the rest of our marriage life and what our expectations are for sex. We haven’t even had it yet. We don’t even know what it’s like. We don’t know what this is going to be like.

(18:54)
And I think you’re right, communication is key to this and communication is key in every aspect of marriage. But when it comes to sex, if it’s something that we’re never going to talk about, then there’s always going to be assumptions in each one of us that are either false or they’re not matching, and being able to just have a regular free and open relationship with your spouse of saying, Hey, how are you doing? What are some of your needs you have, let’s talk about our experiences in the past with each other and what we want it to look like in the future. Here’s desires that I have. Do these need to be adjusted? Should we be praying over this area? This is something that my wife and I had to go through. We struggled with sex early on, but it caused us to talk about it a lot. It caused us to pray over it a lot. And then once we started finding healing in that area, communication about it is just as necessary. It ever has been. We have to talk about this, we have to bring it up to each other and it can be uncomfortable, but the more you practice it, have you found that the more you communicate, the easier it is to communicate?

Yeah, and I think just to jump on a point you just said of communication has brought up stuff that I had no idea that Katie needed from me, that exploded our intimacy life. As soon as, and it took, this was even as a year and a half ago, we had a conversation that just Katie, we kind of got this idea of sharing, Hey, what turns you on? What makes you want to be intimate? And we actually made a worksheet out of that as well.

Yeah, the attraction conversation.

Yeah, the attraction conversation is what we called it. But as soon as we had that conversation, it was like Katie shared some with me that I never would’ve thought of because we’re just so different of what makes us want to be intimate with each other. But yeah, we learned so much as soon as we started talking about that. But yeah, just the communication aspect, just,

Yeah, and it definitely does get easier the more you talk about it. I think avoidance, and this is a completely random example, but I’ll use Covid as an example. We all hold up in our houses and people got more and more and more afraid. And it wasn’t until quarantine ended where everyone came out and, oh, I can still shake someone’s hand. I can still stand next to someone and I’m going to be okay. That’s kind of what communication with your spouse can turn into if you avoid it and avoid it and avoid it, you tell your own narrative and it becomes worse and worse because you’re losing that connection with them. And so you’re not getting the reassurance and the feedback from them that brings you back together and allows that communication to be okay, like we’re not going to fall apart. The world is not going to end if I share how I’m feeling.

(21:40)
And so the more that we can affirm each other and share and then actually seek growth from that, the easier, yes, it’s going to be repeat that. And even if a conversation is difficult, walking through that together and learning that we’re a team no matter what the area, but especially in this one, this is such a, I think the narrative of so many people is that sex is for your pleasure and it is, but really it’s about serving your spouse and reflecting a very deep, intimate love that God has created us to give that reflects the love of Christ. And so if we see that, hey, this is for us to grow as a couple, it becomes okay, the problem we’re facing is the thing that we’re attacking together. We’re not attacking each other. Forming that habit in our communication just makes it so much easier to have those conversations and to open up to each other.

You are hitting a really important point that I would hope everyone listening is catching is the spiritual importance of coming together physically and spiritually and emotionally, that there’s this communication and then there’s this agreeance and this excitement and this readiness to be together. And united, the biblical definition of oneness is specifically sex. Now we are that spiritually, we become one when we become married, but the literal representation of that is coming together physically. And then when you create children, your DNA comes together and actually makes a human being in your image, which is amazing because it’s exactly what God designed us to do is that, is to make children and then raise them to know him. And so what you’re describing is this piece of marriage that is being attacked by the enemy is being attacked by our own flesh, is being attacked by the world and is being chipped away at and destroyed. And many Christian marriages, they could be healthy in every other aspect, and then if they’re not healthy in this area, it’s dysfunction and it’s broken unity. It’s lack of oneness on the deepest levels, the spiritual and the physical. And so I think we need to be taking this advice seriously, of recognizing that we need to be fighting for this in our marriage

(24:19)
And protecting it, keeping it pure as the Bible says, that we should keep the marriage bed holy and precious and pure and not inviting the world into it or not keeping it empty, making sure that we are, and I tell my wife this, I’ve told her this many times in the past, you’re the only one that can fulfill this for me in the entire universe. And the same is true for me, that I’m the only person that can fulfill this specific need in my wife. She can get comfort from a friend. She can get advice from the church and from a friend. There’s lots of things that my wife can get from someone that’s not me, other things other than me, but she can’t get me from anywhere else. She can’t get that physical need met. And I think a lot of, would you agree husbands, wives don’t recognize the power that they have, that this is the only thing, you’re the only person that can give your spouse that.

Yeah, definitely. And that’s part of what makes it so sacred and so special. It is one of the only things that can only be shared in this isolated relationship in this environment. And so that’s very, very powerful. And building off of what you said about the battle over sex and intimacy, we resonate with that so much because there’s so much, especially in the western world that isn’t recognized on the battle for souls and the battle for basically this heaven and hell war that’s going on. And anything that has a lot of power for good is much more heavily attacked. And so seeing that war for sex and how heavily distorted it’s become in our world just gives you that warning flag of, Hey, this actually is super, super important and way more like you were saying, it’s not just a biological need the way a lot of times treated in marriage or where many marriages, Hey, if we’re feeling okay physically, then we’re good.

(26:21)
Let’s just make sure that we check off that box for each other and then go along our lives and not really put much focus on it. But there’s so much more to unpack there where you said that when that intimacy is there, basically the rest of the marriage will thrive and vice versa. If you’re on the same page in your communication and you’re like, your partnership is strong and you’re working together well, then obviously intimacy is going to come easier and be better. And then when you add that in and you make that a priority, everything else is just times 10 experience so much more fully as a marriage.

That was really good. I don’t want to overlook how good that was, but earlier on, so I remember in my marriage when we were dealing with sex, we talked to one or two people, we tried explaining things and we always got answers of like, well, you guys are young and everything should be fine. You look great. It should be just working. And no actual concern, no actual deep questions, no actual like, Hey, can we keep checking in? How is this going? What are you guys doing to work on this? How can we be praying for you and helping you? So two part question. In the beginning when you guys had misaligned expectations and questions and issues, was it easy to open up and ask for help or tell people about what’s going on? And second question is, when you did finally talk to people, did you find help and comfort in that area?

Yeah, I wouldn’t say it was super difficult for us.

I think it was hard for you to talk to me about it.

Yes,

He waited at least that whole first year and I think probably even two years, a year and a half in before we really uncovered everything we needed to where I felt like both of us were being fully transparent about where we were at and set that precedent moving forward. But then once we were open with each other, then I feel like it was easier to go and share

With someone else. But then what happened was that people we went and same thing that happened to you, it was kind of like people were very open. They were open to talking, but then there was no follow up there. No, even the advice I was given was just kind of surface level. We talked to other couples who we had really good marriages were just members of our church that people went to, and it was kind of like, well, we’re kind of dealing with the same problems. You’ll get through it, kind of like what it sounds like you guys got. So that was just kind of going to your church and these people who you would think would be the ones who would counsel you and give you follow up just kind of felt let down about that. So that was when we started looking elsewhere and realized we probably shouldn’t be looking at some of this stuff and just didn’t find good counseling that went along with what we believed, and that’s when we kind of had to talk about

That we should give those people credit. I do feel like sometimes someone that’s a family pastor or something, or even just a good friend, they might not necessarily have all of the resources they need to be more than just an encouragement and to not really delve in with something. And I don’t know that we necessarily, I feel like with the help that we did get and the research that we did on top of that, there are some things that can be handled just the two of us, and a lot of that we solved with prayerfully and with some reading, and we have a few great resources like podcasts like yours and some that were more specifically designed towards, yeah, no problem geared towards sex and working through specific issues on those fronts. Those are great resources without necessarily stepping into. I don’t think we were at the point where we ever needed to go to therapy, but I also recommend going and talking to people before you get to the point where you actually feel like you need it, because usually you’re kind of past a hard spot if you’re already there.

Well, there’s probably a lot of people listening that I don’t want to say a lot because I don’t know, but there’s probably people listening that are probably in the midst of and have been for a long time, sexual issues and who knows why. There’s a plethora of reasons we could be having struggles in our sexual life with our spouse. It could be self-induced sin stuff that we’re dealing with and we’re walking in and that’s unrepentant. It could be past hurt and traumas. It could be physical things that are keeping us from being able to connect. Jennifer and I just did a podcast on how to keep intimacy alive during pregnancy because that’s a real thing that happens and you’re like, oh, we can’t do things the way we used to do things, at least right now. So there’s people that are going to be listening and being like, well, that’s great for you guys.

(31:36)
It sounds like you guys, early on, it was easy for you to talk about it. It was easy. You didn’t have much pain over the years that was accumulated. But I’m in this place where I have a lot of pain. I’m in this place where I’m angry. I’m in this place where I’ve never talked to my spouse about this or know how to talk to my spouse or you name it. How would we encourage them because it’s important that they feel and believe that they can and should dig into this topic with their spouse. How do we encourage them biblically through prayer or what advice would you give to them to take that leap and

Start talking about

No matter how hard?

Yeah, we always encourage baby steps for sure, especially if it’s something you’ve never talked about. And the easiest way we’ve been able to help couples who are part of every love is to do worksheets and stuff like that. I feel like when you have a worksheet, it’s so much, so more comforting to know, okay, these are some questions that are backed by sex therapists that we’ve consulted with that they say are good at walkthrough. And that was actually one of the hardest parts for us, was feeling like we had to come up with some of this

Stuff. It almost gives you permission to share.

Yeah,

And I would say I would preface that with any communication area, starting with setting the environment and communicating your needs. So if I’m the one that’s nervous to come to Alex to talk about something, say, I’m not going to just blurt it out after dinner while the kids are, they ran into the other room for a second and now they’re kind of run back in and he’s going to be like, okay, you haven’t said anything to me for three

Years now. Hey, by the way, I just

Want to, yeah, yeah, I’m going to make sure there’s a time where, hey, it’s not the middle of the night because we’re exhausted and we’re going to be a little delirious and we’re am right before things. I’m going to pick a time where I can be, maybe it’s not a super public place. Maybe we’re in our home or we send kids to grandmas if it’s really serious conversation, set the environment, go for a walk. Maybe a walk is a great walking together, just relieving that stress and holding hands and feeling like we’re moving together. There’s so many things that God’s created that give you the sense of being part of a team physically, which is great. But anyways, starting there and then sharing, I think before you share anything big sharing, Hey, I feel like I need to share this with you. And right now I’m really hoping that we have at least five or 10 minutes where we just support each other.

(34:17)
I get a hug, I know that you still love me, or Hey, I really need advice on this right now. Or, Hey, can you share what you’re thinking right away? Starting with that before you share can be huge because a lot of times your spouse might respond in the way they think you need or they might just respond the way they naturally do. And if that’s not what you were hoping for, that can just set off a whole new conversation you have to recover from rather than a good conversation. And just simply sharing like, Hey, would it be okay if I shared something with you and we just sat together and you told me you love me for a couple minutes before you share how you’re feeling? Or something like that. Something as simple as asking for that can be a complete game changer and then going through the worksheet or the things that you felt like you needed to share.

That’s something we have learned recently with Katie being much more emotional than me in a lot of ways. We’ve, in the last couple months, to be honest, have kind of learned that phrase of before she comes and brings whatever is on her mind, she says, Hey, I want to talk about something and this is what I need from you right now. I always just try and fix it.

I’m going to use that.

That’s what I do. Just let’s fix it.

That’s what I do. And it doesn’t work.

Yeah, no, it doesn’t work. And I don’t know why it was so hard for me to figure that out. And it took Katie saying, Hey, I need you to just lay in bed and hold me after this or whatever, and they’ll respond in this manner. Don’t just try and fix

It. Or I’m like a worrier. And so even with small things, I’ll get very negative. He’ll have an idea and then I’ll list 10 things about why it might not work. And then so he’ll be like, okay, well, you just totally shut down my idea. We’re definitely not doing

That. Thanks for squashing

It. And I was like, well, I did not want to do it. I just needed you to reassure me that it was going to work. And he is like, well, yeah. So I’m like, okay, well maybe share three of your concerns and ask him to encourage you, not. So just things like that where we try to think about how the other person, where the other person might need in order to respond the way you need kind of thing.

I would also add to everything you just said. I love the idea of when you come in, any conversation that’s going to be kind of heavy and difficult and maybe out of the ordinary of like, Hey, this is not the things we discuss. This is not ordinary life. It’s like coming first with, Hey, this is hard for me to bring up, but I think we should bring it up and here’s why I am bringing it up because I love you and I love us and I want to see us thrive and I don’t have the answers, but I want see if we can start a conversation about it and I want you to hear me and listen, but then also know that I love you and I want your love back. I think that’s huge, and it’s something that we can all work on in every aspect of coming to our spouses with difficult conversations, intimate conversations, really what they are.

(37:25)
This is some of the deepest forms of intimacy is coming in and actually sharing the deepest parts of our hearts with our spouse on every aspect that no area of our marriage and life is exempt from our spouse. We are one, not two, but a thing. I would encourage also for our listeners, probably some that are like, that sounds, again, that sounds great, but there’s no way I can bring that up to my spouse because they’ll freak out. They’ll shut down, they’ll feel attacked. They’ll feel shame. Who knows what has gone on in their lives, but they’re going to be considering these things. I would suggest and always start with saturating these things in prayer and going to God and saying, God, this is an area that I desire to see us flourish, and this is an area of our life that I desire to see you move in and transforming us.

(38:17)
And that we would become more one, that we would become more close and open and transparent. Use that word transparent, Jennifer. I love that word because transparency is really, it’s allowing people to see into you, not see what you want to show them, but hey, here’s actually who I am, which is very hard for us to do. We may think we do it, but it’s actually a lot harder than we realize sometimes. I don’t think we actually really know ourselves, but prayer just saturating in prayer and allowing God to give you the opportunity and to guide you. And when’s the right timing for this? How should I set this up? Can you prepare their hearts? I’ve done this with my wife many times on things that I’m like, man, this is something I need to talk to my wife about. I’ll first pray about it and pray about it and pray about.

(39:03)
I won’t even bring it up to them. And then man, many times she comes to me and she’s like, Hey, we should talk about this thing. I’m like, I’ve literally been praying about this. I’ve been praying about this for us. I was like, and so it’s amazing how the Holy Spirit works and God desires us to come to him and utilize the gift that he’s given us of knowing him personally through his Holy Spirit and seeing him work in our spouse’s life. So that was really good advice, and I think we should all be practicing that as husbands and wives

Being

Able to communicate better and get on the same page with those things. Do you think Christians should be afraid to talk about this? Because I think a lot of people are afraid of sex or afraid of the topic. It’s taboo in the church you

Talking about with others or with their spouse?

Well, definitely first with their spouse. But yeah, not that we should be vulgar ever. Not that we should be inappropriate in our conversations and we should be considering where those conversations are taking place, but communicating openly with close friends that love the Lord and are also married and can root you, what’s the word? Root you on now encourage you and root for you. That’s what it’s,

There

You go and be in this fight with you, I think. Is that something that we should, when Jennifer and I started our ministry, we talked about sex and she was afraid to do it. And we had a handful of people email us and we like, how dare you ever talk about this? And we weren’t even saying anything legitimately inappropriate. We used the word intimacy instead of sex. That’s how sensitive we were to the topic. But we had people berate us for wanting to be open about issues we were going through sexually. Should Christians be afraid of it or should we find a way to take it back and actually redeem it back to what God intended it for?

I mean, absolutely, yes, we should take it back and redeem it. And I think in regards to the being vocal about it, that was like we were really scared when we first started the business. We knew we were going to have to talk openly on social media. Katie even said, I’m not doing that. And I respected that. I understood. And what happened was we would do really, really little things. And then we started getting messages from people who were like, thank you. Thank you for talking about this. You have seriously impacted my marriage and our sex life. And we literally had a conversation one day and Katie was like, I feel like we have to share more. These little things we’re doing are actually have an impact on people out there. And that’s when we just started sharing openly, obviously in a very good way. I hope all the content we put out is beneficial and feels like it points people who are watching us towards the Lord.

But

Yeah, I think that’s been huge, especially with Katie.

Yeah, and I think the answer, should we be afraid of talking about it? No, I don’t think there should be fear. I think it’s normal to experience fear around something that we’re used to covering up. And so that’s what Adam and Eves did in the garden right before sin happened. They were naked and unashamed, and that’s literally what we’re talking about. There was full intimacy and there was no shame, and then sin happened, and all of a sudden they’re hiding in the bushes and now God even cloth them because they need protection.

(42:44)
And so fear is natural when there’s issues, but in exposing it, we bring a chance for there to be light to come in. You’re opening up the doors for encouragement, for solidarity, for other people to realize they’re not alone, and then to actually also solve the problems. I think the thing we have to be careful of, like you were talking about in the right context with Christians that also want to glorify God and help your marriage and not harm your marriage. I think that’s where people get confused is how do I identify if my desire to protect my marriage and keep these things sacred because sex is between man and wife and there’s certain things I don’t share or I don’t want it to turn into gossip. I don’t want it to be vulgar or explicit when it’s unnecessary to share something and then, oh, I’m just afraid because this is an issue we’re having and I don’t really want our friends to see us that way, or I

Don’t.

So I think there needs to be a lot of prayerful discretion that starts with praying ourselves, discovering our own comfort level and where that is and why. Is it because I’m afraid and I need to share? Or is it because I’m protecting something? Like if I was having an issue in the bed with you, I wouldn’t go and talk to my mom about it. You’re

Not going to gossip about it.

I’m going to come to you first with how I’m feeling, and we’re going to talk about it together. And if we feel like we need more support, then we’re going to say, okay, what do we feel comfortable sharing that will actually benefit our marriage? And then let’s go talk about it in the right context with the right people. So it does need to be guarded, but people are more, I think more, I can’t go like this because people are listening. I’m putting my hands close. People want to keep their cards close to their chest way more than they’re able to just lay them out on the table. And so I think just kind of know yourself and check that in you before you share.

Yeah, and we encourage people to have a couple, whether it be from your church, who can kind of mentor you or can. I mean, you can hire marriage coaches now, they’re everywhere. Who you trust and who you as a couple feel you can go to with issues once you’ve set that precedent in your marriage. Yeah. We’ve had couples who we go to with stuff that we share a lot more with than we would our parents. And I

Will say, I’ve talked to my friends, like you and I have talked to friends for encouragement about different areas in our relationship, and that is helpful and encouraging. But I would always go to your spouse first because sometimes what works for them is not really going to work. If I ask for my friend Julie, say for advice about something, how do I handle this conversation with Alex? What worked for her? And Gabe might not work for Alex and I and the way Alex needs to be received or the way I need to talk to him, I need to know him. And then we can share our story together as an encouragement or to be encouraged. But I think it should be us first.

I did want to say one more thing just about this subject. I don’t want people to misunderstand. I’ve spent my career in a prison. I’m a prison nurse, so it’s a very rough crowd that I work with. And there have been times I’ve had to shut down conversations regarding, because people would just start sharing with me and I’ve had to go, Hey, I don’t want to hear about that, and I’m not even

Talking. I’m not interested in

That. You’re talking coworkers. But I’ve had to been like, Hey, I don’t want to talk to you about that. I’ve encouraged people, Hey, go find a church where you can find a mentor. So in no way do we want anyone to think we’re talking about gossiping or sharing explicit details about your sex life. The stuff we share is very wholesome, and we try and do in a classy way just to help couples and based off messages we received. I think we’re doing pretty good.

Yeah, there’s a huge difference in just talking loosely about sex and finding people you trust and love and you know that they love you and they love the word and God, and sharing with them things for the sake of more health and more life in your marriage.

(47:24)
And it’s a huge difference. It’s not like you said, the vulgar or the explicit, the looseness of communication is much different than having a reverence for something and actually protecting that area of your marriage. And the only reason you’re communicating and bringing it up is for the purpose of encouragement, growth, more intimacy, more health, not for any other reason than that. And so I appreciate that there’s an importance in protecting, like you mentioned before, this is a sacred thing between you and your spouse. And it’s not something to be frivolously, exploited and displayed for the world to see that we keep it protected.

(48:14)
So that’s important for us as husbands and wives to remember, but to not let our fears and anxieties and discomfort of talking about these intimate things stop us from seeking out counsel and help from, as the Bible says, wise man surrounds himself with a multitude of counselors, people who are going to speak into our lives with wisdom and truth and the word of God and love, and not surround ourselves with, like you said, there’s people that are talking, you’re like, this is not appropriate to talk to right now. That’s between you and someone else, not me. So there is a big difference, and I think we can navigate that as believers, something that I really truly believe that Christians true believers in Jesus Christ, we should have the best sex. I believe this. I think our relationships with our spouses should be the healthiest and the most beautiful. It doesn’t mean that they always are. It doesn’t mean that we are perfect, but that’s something, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to strive toward that

(49:22)
To want what God designed us for, to desire health in every aspect of our marriage. That shouldn’t be wrong to want. We should desire that. And I think the world should see us, and they should be like, why are the Christians so much happier? Why are their marriages so much stronger? Why are they so much more content and fulfilled and satisfied with each other? And then we can be like, well, it’s Jesus Christ. We have him and he encourages us to walk a certain way and to desire certain things and to cultivate certain aspects of our lives in a specific way for the purpose of glorifying him. And so I don’t think sex should be separate from that. And I think there’s a lot of people that think it should be that think it has no place, and it should be. It’s a necessary evil, which is really sad to think about. But I think there’s people that they see it as. And actually I think there’s believers out there that see it as an unnecessary evil. They think, though this shouldn’t even be a thing probably because of past hurt and trauma and things that have happened to them. And I just pray for those people right now that God would begin to heal them in that area because

Definitely,

Yeah, I think our marriages would be much more powerful and strong the more unified and more one we are in that if we had such a good biblical, healthy perspective of our physical, emotional, spiritual relationship with each other.

Definitely.

(50:45)
That’s why we started our whole business and come on podcasts and talk about it. People need to hear more about how to celebrate it in their marriage and have those resources that reignite intimacy for them. And that’s what we’ve heard from a lot of the people that we get to talk to now. People just message me on Instagram or in our marriage community on Facebook and share how, oh, I haven’t worn lingerie for 23 years and now because of you guys that were buying these boxes and we’re actually excited to get in the bedroom together and try new things and celebrate each other and feel closer. And it’s just so cool to see those messages coming in. Something we didn’t anticipate being so effective and encouraging to us too, that we are proclaiming that for people and fighting that battle so that they can reignite that with their spouse and like you said, have the best sex instead of just muddle through it, muddling through it.

You use that word ignite intimacy, and you built a business slash ministry. It’s like you’re trying to minister to couples in this way with this product, this box. They get it and it’s got things in it to help them. Is it not just physical? Is there, it’s spiritual, emotional, and physical? Is that kind of how you are? Is it encompassed in these boxes that people

Can get? Yeah, so the products are definitely mainly geared towards the physical. So there’s a piece of lingerie in every box, and there’s a theme with every box and four to six products that will cohesively unite that theme. But we also include a virtual guide. And so on the virtual guide, there’s a playlist we’re working on right now. We’re in the works of prayers and a verse that goes with each box. So those will release soon. Oh, that’s cool. And then there’s activities and sexy scenarios. So we kind of give ways to use the products of how we imagined a date night going. There’s always at least three. And so that will include, a lot of them have, one of ours is called Everlasting Love, and it has a cheers to us card deck game where they celebrate each other’s love by making toasts. And so you have different cards that ask questions, reflecting, that’s cute.

(53:05)
And then celebrating your current present and then getting excited for the future plans together. So there’s a lot that goes into the boxes that creates, like you said, more of that full picture of intimacy, not just having sex, but kind of creating that connection with your spouse and that vulnerability and then that fulfillment all in one. And it’s all planned for you, so you’re not guessing it out. But we basically came together of like, okay, what is all of the boxes that we would want to check if we were to have the perfect date night in where we felt completely connected on both ends? And then we verified that with a few therapists and marriage coaches and went over our activities and stuff like that. And that’s kind of what the box offers is that guide for you to take your intimacy to the next level.

That’s beautiful. I think this is a really cool resource that you guys have created. And I love that you also, you saw that there was a need in the market because like you said, Alex, you were looking and you’re like, I don’t like looking for this stuff. This feels dirty.

(54:18)
Creating a product and creating a brand that people can go on and they’re not compromising their purity. They’re not feeling dirty afterwards or shameful or guilty, and that they can confidently go and explore growing this area of intimacy in their marriage without defiling it at the same time. And that’s really important for us as believers, that we can’t do one and the other. We got to be able to grow in maturity, our spirituality, and in our physical relationship with our spouse without defiling it, that we don’t need to bring in the world’s answers and we don’t need to muck it up with impure things. And you guys have designed something to be able to do that for believers and non-believers alike without making them feel like they’re compromising. And I think that’s really cool. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah,

This was a beautiful talking with you guys. Is there anything else you’d like to share before we sign off? Is there anything you’d like to offer to our audience? I’ll give you,

Yeah. We have a free pleasure planner that we give to our subscribers, and we’d love to offer you guys a sample, everyone listening. It just kind of helps you guys plan out time for date nights. It’s got some additional resources in there, some different guides and stuff like that. And then it’s also huge on scheduling time for intimacy, which we found very helpful in our life.

And the link for that will be in

The, yeah, and we’ll have it in the show notes if Aaron can do that.

Awesome. Yeah, I’ll put

In the show notes. And also, we would love to give you guys a discount for our box, so I think we’ll do a 30% off. You can just use code marriage after God. Yeah. But we’ll give you 30% off our box and yeah, that’d be awesome.

And then if you guys want, we’d love to extend an invite to our marriage community on Facebook called the Every Loves Commit to Connect Marriage community. So if you guys are on Facebook, that’s where we get the most vulnerable and we have actual conversations with our subscribers and with other people that are just following along and doing what we’re doing in their own marriage, and they’re working on it, and they’re encouraging each other. We do date night challenges and marriage nights and stuff like that on there. So I guess those three things that you can do. You can download the Pleasure Planner from the show notes. Use code marriage after God for your first Every Love Date Night box. Those come every two months, and then join the Commit to Connect marriage community on Facebook to hit us up and get to know us better and be a part of that group that we’re forming.

Awesome. Alex and Katie, I will add those in the show notes. Thank you so much for giving me an hour of your day and for blessing our audience, and I look forward to maybe having you on again in the future.

Yeah. Thank you so much.

Thank you. We appreciate it. Appreciate all you do.