Episode Outline

Host: Aaron Smith

Guest: Matthew Efird

Focus: How a couple walked through the lethal diagnosis and loss of their infant son without losing their faith or their marriage, and what they learned about mourning well, showing up for others, and speaking truth over a household in grief.

Introduction

• Matthew and Hannah were high school sweethearts, together 16 years, married 12
• Four boys; their second son Noah passed away in 2020 after 57 and a half hours
• Matthew runs multiple businesses, speaks on empathetic leadership, and is a former associate pastor

Key Themes

Build the Ark Before the Storm

• Dating long-distance for a year forced Matthew and Hannah to learn to communicate
• Premarital mentors, small groups, and consistent date nights built a foundation before crisis
• Pursuing Christ individually and together drew them closer as a couple
• Aaron: abiding in Christ is the safest place to be for whatever comes; 1 Peter tells believers not to be surprised by suffering

Default to Your Highest Level of Training

• Under pressure you do not rise to the occasion; you fall back on what you have practiced
• When the diagnosis came, Matthew and Hannah did not have to find community; they mobilized it
• Accountability reframed: hold you close and call you higher

Grieving vs. Mourning

• Everybody grieves, but not everybody mourns well
• Grief keeps you at the grave; mourning allows you to move forward
• Openness about loss creates a safe room for others to share hard things without crushing the room

The Diagnosis

• Routine 12-week ultrasound; the technician kept measuring the back of the baby’s neck
• Genetic testing confirmed trisomy 13, a lethal diagnosis
• The couple’s conviction that life begins at conception meant the diagnosis changed nothing about the pregnancy
• The call came while standing on the back porch holding their 18-month-old

Speaking Truth Over Your Family

• Matthew and Hannah chose to lean in rather than out, even when they did not fully believe what they were saying
• The family slogan “Even though we will” comes from Job 13:15
• “Even though our son is dying, we will still serve the Lord. Even though we will be bereaved parents, we will continue to stay married.”

The Question That Protected Their Marriage

• Their neonatologist asked Matthew, “How is your marriage?”
• In 35 years he had seen loss either drive couples together or drive them apart, with no in-between
• The fog of grief makes long-term thinking hard; the doctor lifted Matthew’s head above the clouds

God’s Mercy in the Timing

• Noah was born two weeks early on March 7, 2020 and lived 57 and a half hours
• Family, friends, and a photographer were in the room; the hospital closed to visitors the day after they left
• Every hour was a gift they did not expect

Grief and the Gospel

• What Matthew deserves is separation from God; what he has been given is life and reunion
• Nothing outside his faith, wife, and children is worth more than one more minute with Noah
• Journal entry: Noah never experienced Matthew letting him down

Presence, Not Words

• Job’s friends got it right when they sat in silence; things fell apart when they opened their mouths
• Shoulder-to-shoulder time from men in Matthew’s life was the greatest gift
• Drive-by advice from people who had not sat with him was the least helpful
• Practical help: food, gift cards, lawn care, cleaning, laundry, date nights, and loving on surviving siblings

Two Questions for a Marriage in Grief

• “Are you okay?” is futile in grief
• Question one: “Have I done something to upset you?”
• Question two: “Would you like to talk about it?”
• Grief isolates; these questions let a spouse see the other in their hurt without escalating

Empathy Connects, It Doesn’t Measure

• Empathy leads to more questions than answers
• Ask the name of the person who died, use it, and ask to hear about them
• Do not take the spotlight off someone’s loss to shine it on your own
• Slow to speak, quick to listen, ask better questions

Key Takeaways

• The relationships and rhythms you build in ordinary seasons are what carry you when crisis hits
• You do not get to choose your circumstances, but you can choose whether to lean into your faith or out of it
• Speaking truth over your family works even on the days you do not fully believe it
• Loss will drive a marriage together or apart; the decisions you make in the fog affect you for decades
• What a grieving person needs is your presence, not your advice
• Replace “Are you okay?” with “Have I done something to upset you?” and “Would you like to talk about it?”
• Empathy asks questions; it does not compare sufferings

Notable Quotes

• “Everybody grieves, but not everybody mourns well.” — Matthew Efird
• “When you get hit in the mouth, you don’t rise to the level of the occasion. You default to your highest level of training.” — Matthew Efird
• “What somebody needs in a season of grief is not your words, they need your presence.” — Matthew Efird
• “Though my circumstances have changed, your character has not.” — Matthew Efird
• “Empathy leads me to ask more questions than give more answers.” — Matthew Efird
• “Empathy is a tool that should connect us, not become a measuring stick.” — Matthew Efird
• “I don’t need to have gone through the experience that you went through for me to grieve with you, to learn from you, to be blessed by you. And that’s how the body of Christ is meant to work.” — Aaron Smith

Resources Mentioned

• Even Though We Will by Matthew Efird
• Matthew’s website
• Book of Job (Job 13:15); Romans 12:2; 2 Corinthians 1:3–4; 2 Corinthians 4:16–18; 1 Peter; Matthew 5:4

Next Steps / Call to Action

1. Take inventory of your community. If crisis hit tomorrow, who would you mobilize? If the answer is no one, join a small group or find a mentor couple this month.
2. Write your own “even though” statement as a couple and speak it over your family, especially on the hard days.
3. The next time your spouse snaps at you, ask “Have I done something to upset you?” and then “Would you like to talk about it?”
4. Think of one person you know who is grieving. Skip the advice. Ask their loved one’s name, ask to hear about them, and then do something practical: a meal, a gift card, an hour with their kids.
5. If you or someone you know has lost a child, pick up Even Though We Will and share it with the people around them.