Strength in Weakness: A Journey of Faith w/ Jackie ​​Avilés

Aaron Smith (00:00)
Hey Jackie, welcome to the marriage after got pack podcast. I’m so happy to have you.

Jackie Avilés (00:04)
So thankful to be here today, Erin. This is gonna be so awesome. I’m expecting for this conversation.

Aaron Smith (00:11)
So you reached out to me or I think your assistant did and I just love being reached out to but like if I was to even try and go out and find people to be on my show, I wouldn’t even know where to start. I could Google search like who should I have my show? It wouldn’t work. But somehow the Lord brings people into my email box, inbox and I’m just like, this is so cool. ⁓ And it’s always around like what God’s doing in people’s lives. And that’s literally how you were pitched to me is like, what God did in your life. And so I’m excited to just have a

Jackie Avilés (00:38)
Aww.

Aaron Smith (00:41)
conversation with you about what God’s doing in your life, what He’s been doing in your life, hear a of your story. And just for my audience who may not know you, I would love to know just who are you, what’s a little bit of your background and marriage, you know, story, and we’ll get going with that.

Jackie Avilés (00:57)
Yeah, absolutely. So I’m Jackie Aviles. I right now I’m an author, a mom, a wife. I’ve been married to my husband for about 15 years now. And yeah, it’s been beautiful and hard and holy and all the things as you know. ⁓ But we were married in 2009 and it’s just been a journey of, like I said, hard and holy. We have two kids together.

Aaron Smith (01:09)
Amazing.

Jackie Avilés (01:25)
and it’s, it’s just full of Jesus and summertime is here. So it’s wild and beautiful. But, like I said, I’ve, I’ve just been married for that time and it has, ⁓ been a time of just a lot of ups and downs regarding my health and the testimony that we bear now witness to, ⁓ everyone that we come in contact with. So yeah, wife, mom doing all the things.

Aaron Smith (01:56)
Yeah, everything, the best career in the world. Where’s your home base? Where are you guys located?

Jackie Avilés (01:59)
Yes.

So

we live right now in Miami, Florida, actually right below Miami in Homestead, a city called Homestead. And we’ve been here since we’ve met each other. Yeah, we met here in the church that we pretty much spiritually grew up in. And then we’ve just been here ever since. We have no plans on moving. And so yeah, it’s been great.

Aaron Smith (02:12)
⁓

A friend of mine’s a pastor here in central Oregon where I’m from, where I live, not from, he actually, him and his father, they were pastors in a church in Homestead, Florida. So I don’t know if, yeah, his name’s Clint Wills. I don’t remember his dad’s name, Clint Wills.

Jackie Avilés (02:31)
Nice!

No way! What are their names?

Hmm. I don’t,

I’m not familiar with that name, but that is so cool. That’s really cool.

Aaron Smith (02:51)
Yeah, I

know a pastor that was a pastor there. They moved up here. don’t know. I don’t know if their church is still a church down there, but they definitely got a pretty awesome church going here in central Oregon, which is pretty cool. And my wife, my wife spent about a year in central Florida on the right on the coast on the Atlantic coast. Is that the ocean that’s over there?

Jackie Avilés (02:55)
Yes! ⁓

I love that. That’s so awesome.

Mm-hmm. So,

normally when I’m traveling up, I’m going on the west coast.

Aaron Smith (03:23)
you go on that side. Yeah. That’s really pretty. The American golf, is that what it’s called now? Yeah. That’s awesome. So is the weather like really great in Florida right now or is it super hot and humid?

Jackie Avilés (03:25)
Yeah.

Yes, I love it.

So,

you know, we always wish that we have like seasons over here. We’re always like, can we see the trees and the flowers bloom? But it’s just set at hot. And our temperatures in Florida, well here specifically in Miami and Homestead are like in the 90s. I mean, the summer is killing us right now. Lots of humidity, everything that we don’t want. But the beach is, you know, why everybody comes to this sunshine state.

Aaron Smith (04:00)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (04:06)
The beach is definitely amazing. Yeah.

Aaron Smith (04:07)
Incredible,

You need the air conditioning and you need swimming pools. That’s key to living in Florida here. Yeah, we’re being at the beach all summer. Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (04:14)
That’s right. That’s right.

Yes, or

being there all summer, exactly.

Aaron Smith (04:25)
Yeah, so your husband, it’s Emilio, is that correct? From another of research I did? Yeah. Awesome. And then two boys, what’s your boys’ ⁓ names and ages?

Jackie Avilés (04:28)
Yes, he’s, yeah, he’s Pastor Emilio, yep.

It’s so funny because ⁓ as hesitant as I was to do this, we have Emilio the fourth ⁓ and Elijah as well. Yeah, so we have all four Emilios in the generation right now. That’s right, yep. Yep, so Emilio and Elijah, they’re 10 and 12.

Aaron Smith (04:47)
of that.

Long line of Emelios. Yeah, that’s so cool. That’s awesome. ⁓

You’ve been married 15 years. That’s a, that’s not a short amount of time. My wife, you, got married just a couple of years after my wife and I did. We, we just had our 18th in January. and yeah, and it’s, it’s amazing to find couples now that have been married for so long because people are getting married later and later, and then also staying married shorter and shorter. And it’s just, it’s really sad to see that, but it’s awesome to see just believers sticking it out even through the hard things, which is essentially your

Jackie Avilés (05:10)
was so cool!

Yes.

Aaron Smith (05:30)
your story. And I feel like a lot of us, we’ve, we all have seasons. I don’t know if I’ve ever met someone that’s like, my life’s been honky dory, you know, that we have seasons that are very difficult. You had a part of your testimony, and I’d love for you to maybe go back to the beginning if it’s okay, of what, so at what point in your marriage going in, you know, did you get diagnosed with cancer? Cause I know that’s a big part of your story.

Jackie Avilés (05:38)
Yeah.

Of course.

Yeah, so I was 26, I’m 35 now. So you guys can do the math. But I was 26 when I got, yeah, about nine years, maybe a little less than that. But into our marriage, I was diagnosed with stage four terminal metastatic breast cancer. And the cancer pretty much just spread to ⁓

Aaron Smith (06:08)
That’s nine years, or am I going the wrong way?

Jackie Avilés (06:26)
under my lymph nodes, my lymph nodes throughout my body into my bones, specifically my spine and my hip. And ⁓ it went a little bit into my lung area. And it was pretty much just a 6 % chance of life, which gave me an equivalence to six months to live. ⁓ And it was the most devastating.

most horrific thing that we have ever experienced ⁓ as a couple, as individuals, in our family, as parents. And ⁓ it was just definitely something that we didn’t expect. ⁓ But the Lord is so good and so wonderful. And I’m 10 years cancer free now, or nine years cancer free now. And it’s just been…

Aaron Smith (07:22)
Definitely,

Jackie Avilés (07:23)
a beautiful

hard journey, ⁓ but definitely filled with the grace of God, with the peace of God. I remember at one point we were just, we had to do a will, which nobody really thinks about ever doing wills so young, but we had to sit down with lawyers and do our will. And we went to a funeral home and I tried to pick what I would think my casket should be like.

Aaron Smith (07:38)
Bye.

Jackie Avilés (07:51)
I took funeral pictures just so that my children wouldn’t remember me, ⁓ you know, specifically with like the cancer thing, the cancer diagnosis. And so it was just really, really hard just doing the will and picking the casket and taking the photography for the pictures that were going to be shown at my funeral. And ⁓ we just, it was a time where all we had to do was depend on God, all we had to do.

Aaron Smith (07:52)
my goodness.

Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (08:21)
And all we could do was to depend on someone greater than ourselves. so, yeah, it was wild.

Aaron Smith (08:29)
What? That’s, I couldn’t imagine the devastation of having to go pick out your own casket. Like no one wants to do that. That’s a, that’s a heavy thing. Like, like, Hey, we’re going to go and let’s look at, no, I, I couldn’t even imagine that. I do want to mention something you mentioned having to do a will and no one wants have to think about that. But for all my listeners, I just want to encourage everyone listening.

Jackie Avilés (08:39)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (08:58)
If you want to protect your family from not just the devastation of an unforeseen death or tragedy, which is no one wants that, okay, but the devastation that the government can cause ⁓ when you don’t have things set up correctly for your family is ⁓ you don’t want that either. That’s even almost on some levels, it just adds to the pain of the whole issue. Go set up a will and go set up a living trust for your family.

Jackie Avilés (09:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Aaron Smith (09:28)
and just avoid the government altogether. My family has set up. They’re so important. I just wanted that little add on, a little bonus for all my listeners. This is something you should absolutely do. Go find a family lawyer. I’m not even advertising for anything. This is just set up a family trust so that you can just know that anything that you’ve tried to build for your family doesn’t get taken advantage of by the government and doesn’t go into probate and all that.

Jackie Avilés (09:31)
Yes.

Yeah.

Mm.

Aaron Smith (09:57)
crazy stuff and all you have to focus on is what you have in front of you. But that’s a little side note. I just want to ask about the diagnosis. Was it like a random thing that you found out or was it something that you knew was growing or was it like when you found it, was like, boom, you’re already at stage four?

Jackie Avilés (10:02)
That’s right.

Yeah, so ⁓ when I found out I was actually at stage three, ⁓ and I remember just like just standing in front of my mirror one day and ⁓ just feeling this panic because I had felt a few lumps around my chest area and ⁓ I went to the doctor. Like this is the crazy part. Like I went to the doctor. I went to ⁓

the specific people that I needed to go to and they pretty much said, hey, you’re really young. You just had a child. It’s probably about breastfeeding or your body’s hormones. They’re probably just cysts that are coming up because it runs in your family, whatever that looked like at that time. they basically just, yeah, very common things, but they basically just said, hey, like don’t start freaking out.

Aaron Smith (11:06)
Yeah, which are very common things.

Jackie Avilés (11:14)
go home, you’re fine. ⁓ I couldn’t get ⁓ specific scans and things like that because I was so young. Normally they don’t do ⁓ ultrasounds or scans for women until they’re in their 40s or 50s. so being 26, I was just like, okay, I will go home and the doctors say that I’m fine. So that’s what it is. so at ⁓

Aaron Smith (11:36)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (11:41)
One point I was heading to the Matt Chandler conference, ⁓ mingling of souls with my husband. And during that time I had just unbearable pain underneath my arm. And little did I know that that was the tumors actually pushing up against the nerve endings and the lymph nodes under my arm. And so it was causing so much excruciating pain that I went to the urgent care.

Aaron Smith (11:59)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (12:06)
And in the urgent care, they were saying, hey, you know, we can’t really do any scans either. You need to go to the hospital. You need to go see your doctors again. But the urgent care doctor was like, I think you’ll be fine. And so again, I was just like, OK, took some ibuprofen was fine for the conference. When I came back, it was about three. Well, I would say like two months before I actually went to the doctor.

And when I went to the doctor, it was a stage three and pretty much everything was wild from there. was chemotherapy and it was all the symptoms that come up with chemo and medication and doctor’s appointments. ⁓ And then very quickly after that, we went for our, when I went for my checkup, ⁓ they diagnosed me with terminal cancer because it had spread and it had metastasized from my chest area to my bone and to my.

Aaron Smith (12:36)
Mm.

Jackie Avilés (13:06)
⁓ other parts of the body. So it was a wild and crazy thing. And so it was, I mean, this was a span of maybe four months in total that I went from nothing to terminal. So it was crazy.

Aaron Smith (13:27)
That’s heavy and would be so terrifying. Would you suggest that women be ⁓ stronger advocates for themselves when it comes to these things? would you wish you would have pushed a little harder right away?

Jackie Avilés (13:28)
Yeah.

I do. I really, really, I remember just holding my babies and talking to my husband and my biggest fear was just like, or my biggest regret was just like, why didn’t I just go? Why didn’t I just go to the doctor’s office? Why didn’t I just go earlier? Why didn’t I push harder? ⁓ But I did, trusted my doctors and…

which I don’t think it was a bad thing. just think that for women who, know, nobody thinks that this is going to happen to them. And then when it does, there’s so many things that we wish we would have done differently. And I just don’t want that for any woman. I don’t want her to go through that. want her to feel that regret. So I would definitely advocate no matter what age you are, get those exams, do what you can. Yeah, it’s, it’s, if not at the cost is heavy.

Aaron Smith (14:33)
Yeah,

there’s been so many stories in my life. I’m 41 now and ⁓ I’m only halfway through my life, hopefully. But there’s been lots of in my life, just different families and different people that I know that I’ve gone through really hard medical things. And then the number one thing that I’ve just keep seeing over and over again is getting second opinions. Like it’s not that it was wrong that you trusted your doctor, but realizing that

Jackie Avilés (14:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (15:04)
Doctors are fallible and they’re not perfect and they don’t know everything and they’re basing stuff off history that they have. And also not wanting to throw a 26 year old into a spiral of unnecessary fear, I get that. But always getting a second, third, fourth opinion, going and getting multiple people to look. Because someone else might have thought, well, actually I’ve seen several cases recently of younger people, maybe we should check. ⁓ And I think that’s a

Jackie Avilés (15:09)
Yep.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (15:31)
just a good rule of thumb for us when it comes to these types of things is getting second opinions, getting third opinions and asking more. Like, I mean, the Bible even says that ⁓ a person who has many counselors will succeed. know, getting many people to figure out what might be going on is really good instead of just the one. So that’s good advice for all the women listening right now.

Jackie Avilés (15:37)
Absolutely.

Yep. Yep.

Absolutely. And I will say, yeah, I will

say like when you were talking about like the generation in the beginning of our conversation of just like ⁓ marriage and what that looks like now and who wants to get married, who doesn’t want to get married, all of those things like the culture and the society, don’t, a lot of us or a lot of this generation does not realize ⁓ that vows are lived out. And so what

When we say like till death do us part or when we say in sickness or in health for better or for worse, ⁓ the day that we say it, it’s celebratory and it’s amazing and it’s under God and it’s beautiful. But the day that we have to live them is where, you know, we have to really like walk out our theology and really live out what that looks like. ⁓ And that was that was very hard because there’s two different people.

Aaron Smith (16:25)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (16:55)
the sufferer and then the helper and trying to figure out the communication with that and the stress of it all and not being able to ⁓ talk specifically about it. And just how we dealt with things was very different too. And now we look back and we’re like, thank you God and thank you God that you sustained us because it was Jesus, it was the Lord only. ⁓ And we look back and we’re like, we’re so grateful ⁓ because even if

Aaron Smith (17:06)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (17:24)
Even if I were not to be here today, the way that God sustained us and helped us communicate during that time was, oh my gosh, was sanctifying and that’s what marriage is. And so when you were talking about in the beginning just about this generation’s view on marriage, I think about the stats right now. I was looking them up earlier and it’s like two in five think marriage is outdated.

outdated tradition, which is like 40 % of this generation, 85%. I ⁓ was reading that they don’t even think that marriage is necessary to have a fulfilled and committed relationship. And I’m just wondering, like, to go through that alone would have been devastating. Like I wanted my husband, I needed my husband, we needed each other. God worked through us to just grow together and

love each other deeply. so just doing that without him would have been so, hard. And then ⁓ one of the biggest ones ⁓ that I was reading was just like, this generation just doesn’t want to get married because they don’t want a marriage like the ones their parents had. So like that’s 45 % of this generation. And I’m just thinking what happens when you’re going through this

devastating time and your children are watching, you know, because that was a huge thing for us too. Like, they are they watching us love Jesus? Are they watching us, you know, reconcile to this in godly ways? Are they watching us live out for the good of others and the glory of God, even through suffering? You know, is it building this character and endurance and hope ⁓ that the Bible talks about for our children? What example does that look like for them?

And yeah, it was just, it just took me back to that because I’m like, this is all about marriage and struggle and God and kids and all the things wrapped up in the beauty of what God designed marriage to be. And so this generation, we’re praying for them. We love them. Yeah.

Aaron Smith (19:40)
You

said something that I just want to highlight. You were talking about, you make that promise at the altar, you make that covenant, you say those vows, right? And it’s great. And you said them. It’s like when you come to Christ and you’re like, now I’m saved and I have Jesus and I’m walking with him. But it’s the things in life that come up that test if those vows mean something.

Jackie Avilés (20:07)
Exactly.

Aaron Smith (20:09)
And James 1 says, you know, count all joys, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. That is exactly what you’re talking about is that this test that your marriage went through is proving and testing the faithfulness of your and the steadfastness of your marriage. And so it’s such a good transition because I wanted to ask about your husband, Emilio. So as a husband, I

Jackie Avilés (20:17)
Mm-hmm. That’s right.

That’s right.

Aaron Smith (20:39)
gone through seasons, not not criminal cancer, but just seasons with health issues with my wife and just pregnancies and all sorts of things and other other, ⁓ you know, testing and trials. And as a husband, there’s a role that I play where I can either make the situation better or make the situation worse, harder. want to I’m I’m asking how did it meet your husband, Emilio?

Jackie Avilés (20:39)
you

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (21:09)
deal with this news because it’s just abrupt. It’s like we got this marriage, things are good, we got our kids and then boom, four months, life turned upside down. What was his process and how did he walk through this with you?

Jackie Avilés (21:11)
Yeah.

Yeah, I wish he was here because he would have loved to just share, but I will say, ⁓ yeah, like he’s not home, but I wish he was here because he would have loved to be able to share this, ⁓ with me and with you guys. But, ⁓ I will say when you were talking about perseverance, like steadfastness, you can’t not achieve, but you can’t access it or you can’t understand it until you actually have something that is causing you to.

Aaron Smith (21:32)
Go grab him. Go grab him. Just kidding.

Okay.

Jackie Avilés (21:55)
use perseverance. you yeah, exactly. But ⁓ during that time, ⁓ in the beginning times, it was very hard for him. He was, I wouldn’t say in denial, but he was so helpless, that he would only hear, which is really great in some aspects, but really hard for me and other aspects, he would only hear the hope

Aaron Smith (21:56)
Yeah, I want to give up. Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (22:24)
⁓ or the good small bits of the milestones per se that the doctor would give us. And so because he felt so helpless, the only thing that he could cling to was the small signs of hope, which would be like, okay, well, the chemo looks like it’s working, which is great. But at the time, it was very hard for me to not meet

Aaron Smith (22:31)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Avilés (22:54)
or for him to not meet me where I was. So if it was a very hard day or if it was ⁓ a place where I was just really grieving, he would come in and he’d say, well, you know what? It’s okay because the chemo’s working. And so what I needed in my husband earlier in the time was just for him to meet me where I was. ⁓ And so that was in the very early beginning because he was trying to cope with this diagnosis. He had his own fears. ⁓

And I was coping and trying to understand what was going on and what was going to happen with the family and myself. And so the communication aspect of our relationship was very hard. It was very hard because he couldn’t help me, but I kept telling him, you can help me just, just meet where I’m at. ⁓ and I remember very vividly, vividly one day, he, were walking outside of the doctor’s office and

we hadn’t heard good news. it was just like, that was the day that it was, it went to terminal cancer. Yes. Yes. It was just bad news and we hadn’t heard good news. And so we walk into the elevator after the doctor’s appointment and he’s like, ⁓ but the chemo’s working. He just kept saying, but the chemo’s working, but the chemo’s work. And it was, it was a moment of like, okay, if he doesn’t cling to this, right? Like,

Aaron Smith (23:59)
More of the same. Yeah, bad news. Yeah

Jackie Avilés (24:21)
which is hope. It’s the only bit of hope that he was looking for. He was looking for signs and evidence of what God was doing within. ⁓ And he was just like, but there’s hope because the chemo is working and don’t worry, it’s going to be okay. And I was just like sobbing. I was like, I’m going to die. Like, this is not good. This is not great. Like something’s going to happen. Yes. Yes. And I just remember just

Aaron Smith (24:45)
Did you hear what the doctor said?

Jackie Avilés (24:51)
having like this mini argument in the elevator because I was just like, can you not be so happy right now? And he was like, can you not be so sorrowful right now? So the communication was definitely hard in the beginning, but yeah.

Aaron Smith (25:08)
This is a good reminder for us husbands. Well, I appreciate his desire for that hope and looking at the hope and having that… He sounds like a glasses half full guy, very positive. like, hey, terminal, but we got this over here. So that’s really a gift. But it’s very typical, I think, of us husbands because we desire… I think it’s built into us spiritually.

Jackie Avilés (25:21)
Yes, he is.

Aaron Smith (25:36)
You know, how God made men is like, we have a solution. We’re going to try and fix the problem. And my wife, just like you, and I think every woman is very similar. like, of course you want an answer. Of course you want hope. I would imagine you didn’t want him to be exactly where you were also, hopeless and feeling like, this is it. Because that would have added in…

Jackie Avilés (25:40)
Yes.

Right, absolutely.

Aaron Smith (26:03)
infinitely more weight of like, you’re also hopeless. Like there is no, but you desire him to at least not throw his hope out, but meet you in your hopelessness and be like, hey, this has got to be so hard. I don’t understand it. don’t, I’m also, but I’m here with you and I’m weeping with you. And I think of that scripture that says, you know, we weep with those who weep, mourn with those who mourn. We rejoice with those who rejoice. And Proverbs

Jackie Avilés (26:07)
Yes.

That’s right.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (26:33)
very proverbs like saying like, hey, you you sing songs early in the morning, you’re going to be met with, you know, frustration doesn’t matter how, matter how pretty the song is, you know, you know, have that, have the hope, but be able to get down on your knees and hold me, like hold me and cry with me and know that I’m scared and know that it hurts. And, and my wife desires that she’s like, she’s like, I, I like that you have answers and I like that you want you have hope. And I like that, but I also want you to like, just know how I feel.

Jackie Avilés (26:40)
That’s right. That’s right.

Mm-hmm, that’s right.

Aaron Smith (27:02)
And I also want you to be that with me. And so you wouldn’t have wanted your husband to throw his hope out, but you wanted him to make that hope and that cheer and that desire for better things with a understanding as I think it’s Peter, you know, live with your wives in an understanding way and that he would go to you and be able to weep with you in that moment of getting this devastating news.

Jackie Avilés (27:02)
That’s right.

That’s right, yeah.

That’s right.

Yes, and eventually, yeah, eventually, obviously, we learned and we grew and this was a sanctifying time for our marriage. so eventually, that was something that ⁓ just came because of how God worked in his life and how he, you know, learned me in sickness, because we had never learned each other during sickness. And we’re constantly as a couple. And for all marriages, we’re constantly learning each other who

Aaron Smith (27:32)
We need to learn it.

Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (27:58)
who we are, who we’re growing into, it’s a never ending change that God continues to just do in our lives. And so he had never known what it was to have a wife that was potentially dying. And so he did the best that he could. And eventually God spoke to both of us, for me to be more understanding and to really cling onto the hope.

that was Jesus, like in the desperation not to let it draw me away from God, but to let it push me towards him and draw me near to the Lord, ⁓ you know, and believing in someone greater than the doctors or myself. And so it was definitely a seesaw as they say, but I’m so grateful for the man that I have. And I’m so grateful for ⁓ how God has brought us through such a devastating time.

Aaron Smith (28:52)
You said hope and we’ve been talking about that. That’s essentially the word of your ministry. It’s like hope, you and you encouraging other couples and other women to grasp onto hope, which is not a word, but a person you talk about. And what were some of the things in this devastating season that your husband did to, cause he was grasping onto hope, whatever he could grab, but

Jackie Avilés (29:06)
That’s right.

Aaron Smith (29:20)
What was he doing to minister to you to help you to also grasp on hope?

Jackie Avilés (29:24)
Yeah, so my husband is a prayerful man. he, all he felt like he could do was pray. And a lot of times we think that that is the end, you know, the last resort, the something that we can go to when things are just really hard. But what I love about him is that he is a prayerful man. He wakes up at five o’clock every morning, he reads his word. Like it’s just something that it’s disciplined in him.

Aaron Smith (29:39)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (29:54)
I am not waking up at five in the morning. But he’s just such a disciplined man. And so with that discipline, it was such a gift in our marriage because ⁓ he would pray, he would ask others to pray, which a lot of people are, know, sometimes it’s hard to ask others to pray. He would read scripture over me. I remember one of the biggest scriptures that just kind of united us with the Lord was in 2 Corinthians, press but not crushed.

Aaron Smith (30:12)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (30:23)
and how it talks about just being these vessels that were pressed but not crushed, were persecuted but not abandoned, were struck down but were not destroyed. And I remember him reading that over me and that’s actually like our marriage verse, right? Like it’s our marriage verse and people would think like, man, that verse is so strong, pressed and crushed and struck down. ⁓ But it’s strong because it’s what God does in the midst of marriage.

It’s his power through it. There’s hope within the midst of the diagnosis. There’s hope within the midst of the destruction. There’s hope within the midst of the trial. so that Presbynot Cross scripture was just anchored. It was our anchor in the Lord. we knew when we read that scripture and we felt the hope of God, the peace of God, the love of God, the perseverance, the steadfastness. And so one of the biggest things that he did was he would just read scripture over me.

When he didn’t have the words, he’d go straight to the word of God and he’d just let Jesus speak them over me. And that was beautiful. It was beautiful.

Aaron Smith (31:31)
That’s a, it sounds like a solution for any situation. The word of God. Husbands, read the word of God to your wife and remind them of what it says. It’s something that there’s been so many seasons and I, like I said, I like to have solutions. like, Hey, what about this? What about this? But the biggest thing I’ve ever been able to do for my wife is pray for her. And it’s something in the marriage ministry is we’re always constantly encouraging people to be praying for their spouses.

Jackie Avilés (31:36)
Yeah, the word of God.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (32:00)
But then reminding them of what the Word of God says. You hey, remember, this is what God has said, not what I say. This is what God has said. And that’s amazing. And so you guys clung on to 2 Corinthians 4, 8 through 9, pressed but not crushed. And the thing that I think about with pressing, someone once told me it’s not my idea, but ⁓ what’s coming out when you press something, something comes out. Like when you press grapes, you get juice. When you press apples, you get cider. When you press

Jackie Avilés (32:04)
Hmm.

That’s right.

Aaron Smith (32:30)
olives you get oil. ⁓ When we’re pressed as believers, something’s going to come out of us and this is a part of the testing of our faith. This is a part of the testing of our love for God. ⁓ what was coming out of you and your husband? What was coming out of your marriage? Like you said, your boys are watching this and your community and the people around you that love you. What was coming out of you and your husband and your family during this time of pressing?

Jackie Avilés (33:00)
Yeah, so I think when, ⁓ I think the first thing that came to my mind is just a vivid picture of what I remember. Out of this pressing came really healthy ⁓ spiritual conversations about who God is to our children. And ⁓ I remember vividly one day having to tell my kids like, hey,

Well, my husband did it. Emilio came in, he was like, hey, know, mommy’s going to go to heaven. And we started having this conversation with them. And it was just this beautiful refinement of, you know, it showed us the oil that was coming out of the pressing. It showed us the glory of God. It showed us like the sustainability that God, the power of him sustaining us in the moment. And he came to them and he said, hey, mommy is

I’m going to go to heaven and we had this beautiful conversation and obviously I’m crying and my kids are so young. mean, they were three, three, one, like so, so young, but my three year olds who is 12 now remembers to this day, the impact that it gave them because heaven for him was not necessarily something that we always talked about, but something that was instilled in him through

through this hard time, this trial in our life. And he just had a beautiful conversation with them about where mommy was gonna be and what God was doing and how wonderful, you know, heaven was and how we were gonna see her one day again. And so a beautiful, just spiritual, deep theological, ⁓ like fundamental conversations came out of that.

for our children and then for our marriage, think it was just ⁓ deep rooted biblical love. Like it was just love that was ⁓ weaving in and through the conversation or the diagnosis or the doctor’s appointments ⁓ that really just came out of us. It was a love that we had never experienced before. It was a love that ⁓ was so amazing that we didn’t even know that

We were missing it in our marriage. And so just the revelation of ⁓ the communication in love and the emotional stability and love and all of the things that God was in our marriage oozed out of us. It was beautiful. It was very beautiful. Hard, but beautiful.

Aaron Smith (35:38)
That’s awesome. Yeah.

And this ministry that you do now and you and your husband do now ⁓ kind of was spurned out of this season of life, You know, finding hope in the times that seem, you know, quote unquote, hopeless. You know, the doctor said it, I’m going to die. And that’s it, you know, which is another testimony to why we should always be, you know, getting second opinions because doctors aren’t always right. ⁓ Look, you’re still here.

Jackie Avilés (35:49)
Yes.

That’s right.

You

Yes, they’re still human, they’re still man.

Aaron Smith (36:08)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (36:08)
That’s right, I’m still here by the blessing of God and God is the one who designs and orchestrates our life and so we have to be careful. ⁓ You know, the wisdom of God is in doctors, I do believe that, and is in medicine. But they’re still man and God is the doctor of all doctors and so we have to put our hope and our trust in God first.

Aaron Smith (36:30)
Was there ever ⁓ a moment in this season of your life that ⁓ you questioned God’s, you know, what was going on? Like, why God? Like, why are you allowing this? And did your husband have a similar situation? And how did that look? it’s easy looking back to be like, wow, know, steadfastness. But was there moments of laboring of like, no, like, what in the world is going on, God? Like, why me? What did I do? What, you know, did you?

Jackie Avilés (36:52)
Yeah.

Aaron Smith (37:00)
Were those questions there?

Jackie Avilés (37:02)
Yes, ⁓ I don’t believe I was ever angry at God. ⁓ I was just so scared. I was just so full of fear. ⁓ And then in that fear and in that desperation, I kind of just, it was either two choices. It was either surrender to what God was doing or control it.

Aaron Smith (37:27)
Mm.

Jackie Avilés (37:28)
And I am someone that love, I love strategy. I love like logistical aspects of things. I am very like practical. And so this just didn’t make sense. It didn’t make sense with the God that I was reading in the Bible. And I think that’s a question that a lot of people have and a lot of revelation that a lot of people have. Sometimes our situations just don’t look or seem like the God we’re reading about in the Bible. And that was something that I had to wrestle with. Yes, it was.

It was very hard. ⁓ know, goodness played into that, like, like if any of us are good, but your mind just starts going through so many thoughts and goodness played a part of that. God, I’ve always served you. God, I didn’t do this. I haven’t, I haven’t done anything crazy like other people. ⁓ I have a family. We serve you. We’re, we’re in church. And so all of these legalistic moments in my mind were just like, this should be enough.

Why am I going through this? Paul comes to mind and God is like, my grace is sufficient. It’s okay, my grace is sufficient. And I know that it’s hard, ⁓ but my grace is sufficient. And I would say, God, take it away. I remember begging God. I don’t know if you’ve ever begged God, but it is the way that I was begging God. Yeah, right?

Aaron Smith (38:49)
Yes, many times.

Jackie Avilés (38:53)
The way that I was begging God was like, would end up exhausted. I would end up, my flesh was so weak and so broken that I would literally just fall asleep because my body, my brain, the trauma that I was going through was just completely shutting me down. I was begging God. And little did I know that in the midst of that begging was still so much faith because you have to, faith.

Aaron Smith (38:54)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (39:23)
You have to have faith to beg God. Like even when you’re begging God, that is faith, you know? And so little did I know that God was working it all for our good and for my family’s good. And not just because he healed me, but because he sustained me and he brought me through. And that’s the power of God. Like he will bring us through. So yeah, I begged God. I was so scared.

It was really devastating. remember one time I read, was rereading the story of the disciples getting into the boat. And I mean, we read this all the time. Like, you know, these are stories of the Bible and we, you know, we just dismiss them sometimes because we’ve read them so many times, but God’s word never turns void and God’s word there’s, mean, he just breaks it up into hundreds of ways so that every single person reading it, no matter what time.

will know and feel that they are in the presence of God, will know that they have been with Jesus. And that’s exactly what happened. It’s a living word, it’s alive, it’s active, it’s sharp. And so ⁓ I just remember reading the disciples getting on the boat again and that story. And I remember what stood out to me the most that day was that Jesus said, looked at them and said, hey, we’re getting to the other, we’re gonna get to the other side. And in the middle of the…

Aaron Smith (40:22)
I’m living weird.

Jackie Avilés (40:44)
of their journey, the storm comes and the boat is crazy and the winds and all these things and Jesus is sleeping like, okay, whatever. ⁓ But it hit me that Jesus never said a storm wasn’t gonna come. Jesus said that he was gonna get us to the other side, that he was gonna get them to the other side. And so when we look at that in our lives and we look in the midst of the storms that we’re in, we cannot forget the promise that’s in there.

and the truth of God’s word and that’s what carried me forward. I would beg and I would remember the promise. I would beg and I’d be scared and I would cry and I didn’t like it and then I would remember the promise. And like the Bible says, the truth sets us free in so many ways and that was one of them that was a way that it would set me free. Peace of God.

Aaron Smith (41:36)
That was the story when you were talking about fear. I immediately started thinking about the disciples and Jesus is just resting and they’re all freaking out and you know, but what’s amazing is like they they go to the one resting, you know, they’re all freaking out and they go to the one resting and you know, but he he’s roused he wakes up and he goes and addresses them like and he does that with all of us and I think of There’s a purpose behind

Jackie Avilés (41:43)
Yeah.

That’s right.

Aaron Smith (42:04)
why the book of Job, the oldest known manuscript in the Bible. it doesn’t necessarily mean that it was the oldest, like historically in the timeline of the Bible, but it’s the oldest manuscript. And it’s timeless in the sense of the story of Job is the story of all of us on various levels. And he’s like on the top level of like suffering on every level you could possibly imagine.

Jackie Avilés (42:31)
Thanks.

Aaron Smith (42:34)
and Jesus or God meets him at the very end of it. And so you have this story and you have like tons of chapters between of like, and it’s exactly how we are, know, me and you and other humans, having these conversations of like the why and the how and the logistics and the but it wasn’t this and I but I did this and what you know, and we’re all trying to figure out what God’s doing without talking to God, you know, and then at the very end, so like when I look at the story of Job,

Jackie Avilés (42:56)
Yep.

Aaron Smith (43:03)
It’s a story of suffering, what it more is, is it’s story of God meeting a man. like like have Job in the beginning and God talking about him and then have Job talk or God talking to Job at the end. And I just love that, that sandwich. And then everything in between is, is how we think we’re going to, how we think we know what’s going on. And we have no idea. And it’s like, yeah.

Jackie Avilés (43:10)
Mmm.

Yes. And who, we have no idea exactly. And who we even have as friends, like

Job’s friends, they sucked. Like in the midst of everything he was going through. It was crazy.

Aaron Smith (43:36)
Well, and sadly, you have a pretty poor example of a wife also. Like you just have this like, everything is coming at this one man. And then even Job himself, he’s like, he really has no clue. Like he thinks he knows, but he doesn’t know. And this is often the case with us is like, we think we know until we don’t. And we’re like, no, I have actually no idea. And so there’s a question I have for you and it’s kind of a difficult one, but.

Jackie Avilés (43:40)
Yes!

More guys.

Aaron Smith (44:04)
It’s one that we all ask when we’re especially in suffering, especially in seasons, like with you, like with terminal cancer, you know, was there a moment when you came to the conclusion that God may not heal you? how was that? Because because we’re talking about hope and a lot of especially believers, we think hope can only exist if we know the outcome. And that’s not hope.

Jackie Avilés (44:21)
Thank

Aaron Smith (44:32)
Hope is like, no, these are things hoped for that we do not see. And so you there there must have been a moment when hope was realized in Christ, regardless of the outcome. What was that?

Jackie Avilés (44:35)
That’s right.

Yes, so

I remember I was in the car driving to South Carolina and I had a speaking engagement and ⁓ I remember ⁓ getting a recurring diagnosis. This just recently happened maybe two years ago and ⁓ I thought that I was healed. I thought that God had taken it from me.

But my doctor calls me back after my checkup’s scanned and she says, hey, it’s back. ⁓ And I remember, and this is a true story, I was driving to South Carolina and I had my contacts on and I cried so much that the acidity of my tears ripped my contacts. And I say that just to feel,

just so that you guys understand the agony of what I was feeling in that moment. I quickly, during the entire drive over there, I have, again, I like order. So I have this ⁓ Spotify playlist that I listen to every time. It’s five songs, the same five songs going up the road, the same five songs going down the road, back to my home.

I remember that Spotify playlist just running all the way up to South Carolina and the agony and the tears and just pleading God and everything, conversation with the Lord ⁓ was devastating. But on my drive back, ⁓ I had just like preached a message on ⁓ hope and overflow and what God could do.

in our pain and it was as if I was preaching to myself. And I remember just coming back on that ride, pressing play on that playlist again. And those five same songs just were completely different to me. ⁓ And I felt the peace of God. I mean, it was wild. Like I literally would, I was praying over my body and I would touch my body. Like I’d get to be like my head, my shoulders.

my body, I’d be like, God, just heal my back, my everything. And I was just pleading God on the way up. And then on the way back, was this, the peace that surpasses all understanding. I have never felt it like I felt it that time coming back from my trip. And those same five songs just were completely different. The words of the songs were now words of victory and peace. And they were lighthearted and they were full of joy when

such a contrast to when I was driving up there where they were full of like, okay, well, if that’s you, God do it or, you know, these thoughts or where are you if that’s who you are. And it was just an incredible experience. I’ve never experienced that before with the Lord. ⁓ And it was, I was by myself with him. And ⁓ yeah, it was just a moment where I’m like, okay, Lord, I, I really had this assurance that I was healed. And that week,

I went to the doctor ⁓ because I had been out of town and she went over the results. She did another scan with me and on that scan there was now scar tissue of where the cancer was originally. And so she shows me these scans and she says, okay, there was a tumor there and now there’s scar tissue. And I literally am looking at it and I’m like, this is, mean, in the moment you had to be there.

It was just wild and beautiful and crazy. And that was like the testimony that I carry, I will carry for the rest of my life. There’s still scar tissue there. There’s proof. God is such a God of detail.

Aaron Smith (48:41)
That’s amazing.

I love that. Was there a time, so that was recently, you just had that reoccurring and God assured you, but was there a time in the midst of the stage four when you were still in the deep end of it that you surrendered to the concept of, know, as Paul said, know, if I die, I got to be with the Lord. If I stay, it’s for the good of the gospel. Was there a moment that you had to surrender to?

Jackie Avilés (48:51)
It was.

Yep.

Aaron Smith (49:17)
that reality.

Jackie Avilés (49:18)
Yes, was well, like Job says, if I perish, I perish, right? Like I, no matter if they slay me yet, I will praise you. And ⁓ that moment was the day that we were speaking to our kids that day that we told them about heaven because it was such a peace after that conversation that it’s going to be okay. ⁓ Yeah, it’s just, ⁓ it was so beautiful.

Aaron Smith (49:39)
Yeah.

I just want you to end with one little encouragement for our audience. For those that feel, we were talking about being pressed and you were being pressed in a lot of ways. But we get pressed in various ways. It may not be stage four cancer. It could be financial. It could be a family. It could be all sorts of things. For those that are feeling pressed right now on every side, what’s one bit of spiritual and practical?

Jackie Avilés (49:55)
Yes.

That’s right.

Aaron Smith (50:16)
Practical spiritual I should say that you can give to them to lean into God’s promises when they fit when they’re right now and they’re feeling all of this pressing on them in their life

Jackie Avilés (50:27)
Yes, so one of the biggest things that ⁓ I would tell them is to lament. I think lamenting, a lot of people think it as a negative thing. And I think during the time that we are, or weakness exactly. And I think during the time of trial, people think, I gotta be strong or if I’m crying, I’m weak, like you were saying. But the Bible’s like, there’s biblical characters all throughout the Bible that were going through something and that lamented they would, ⁓

Aaron Smith (50:39)
for a week.

Jackie Avilés (50:57)
take off their clothes, they would lay down, they would put ash over themselves. Like this is biblical lamenting. And what I’ve learned is that biblical lamenting is not weak. ⁓ It actually glorifies the Lord. And for the glory of God and for the glory of your situation and for the, like just the hope of God in you, lament well, do it well. ⁓

That’s the biggest thing that I would say because I couldn’t during that time. ⁓ There were moments of joy and happiness and peace, the majority of it was just desperation and suffering. And so in the midst of that, to encourage anyone listening, would say, learn to lament, lament well. It glorifies the Lord. There’s hope within it.

Aaron Smith (51:40)
Yeah.

Jackie Avilés (51:50)
And you will see that it brings about such a beautiful piece in your life.

Aaron Smith (51:57)
I wanted to bring up the scripture. I’m looking for it.

Jackie Avilés (52:03)
Yes, I love it. Take your time.

Aaron Smith (52:05)
Yeah, it’s

in second Corinthians. You brought it up earlier. My grace is sufficient for you. You Paul’s praying and praying and praying, Lord, take this thorn from my side. And each time the Lord says to him, it says each time, it doesn’t say like, oh, maybe, oh, maybe, oh, no, because each time he prays, God says, my grace is all you, I’m not going to read that version, sorry, this one. But he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you for my power.

Jackie Avilés (52:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Each type.

You

Aaron Smith (52:35)
is made perfect in weakness.” And then Paul says, therefore, because of what God told me about my own weakness, I will boast all the more gladly of my weakness so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. And that’s what your testimony is displaying is that it’s okay to recognize our weakness. Like you said, lamenting well and saying, I’m weak. I’m incapable of winning this battle right now.

Jackie Avilés (52:46)
Amen.

Aaron Smith (53:02)
I’m not and this is where God wants us to be always like me. I don’t have to stage four cancer that I know of But even now I’m weak I need and I need to I need to be okay with that weakness because as God says his grace is sufficient for me and his powers made perfect my weakness when I Recognize that it’s not in my power. I’m going to accomplish the will of God in my life It’s in his is when his power is the strongest in my life. So when I’m surrendering to

Jackie Avilés (53:08)
Yes.

That’s right.

Yes.

Aaron Smith (53:31)
You surrender to that. You’re you know, okay, not that the grieving doesn’t go away, not that the pain goes away, not that the diagnosis doesn’t even go away, but his strength is made perfect in that weakness. just pray that my audience, those listening, ⁓ would consider that wherever they’re at, that God’s power is perfect in their weakness just as it was in your life. God’s power is made perfect. So I really appreciate you sharing.

Jackie Avilés (53:37)
Hey.

Yes, amen.

Aaron Smith (54:00)
so openly and candidly about this season of your life and how God’s using it to, because you’ve got a ministry, what’s that ministry called?

Jackie Avilés (54:07)
Yeah, so it’s pressed but not crushed to me and my husband have a marriage ministry where we help marriages in crisis whether that be through diagnosis ⁓ or in leadership pastors pastors wives ⁓ And yeah, it’s called pressed but not crushed based off of the scripture verse that changed our entire marriage ⁓ in this time

Aaron Smith (54:26)
What’s the website for that? So my audience can check you out.

Jackie Avilés (54:29)
So it’s so cool because it’s actually ⁓ being revised right now, but you can check a little bit of what that looks like at my website, jacquiabues.com. ⁓ And we are also in the process of church planting, a church called Embassy Church. And so you can check that out soon as well. Yeah, it’s amazing.

Aaron Smith (54:43)
you, Nathan.

Amazing.

and you also have a book that you’re hoping to have released ⁓ this year, probably next year, right? That’s that.

Jackie Avilés (54:56)
Yes, probably next year.

It’s about a two year process. ⁓ But yes, that is coming out soon. can’t my agent is like, not don’t divulge too much. yeah, but basically, the book has three parts. And we I go into what hope looks like. But I talk about practically about grieving your past or grieving the life that you expected or wanted. ⁓ Embracing the present and then hoping for the future life to come.

Aaron Smith (55:06)
Don’t share too much. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, then I’m really glad I didn’t bring up the title of the book because I didn’t know. So I’m glad I didn’t say anything about it. But all my listeners, you’ll love the title of it. And I think the premise of the book is something that a lot of Christians will ⁓ be blessed by. I just, I hope you get that book out soon. ⁓ Jackie, thank you so much for giving me of your time today and sharing your testimony and story with my listeners. I just pray that God continues to use you and your husband to help.

Jackie Avilés (55:32)
You

Yeah.

Aaron Smith (55:53)
marriages all over the world, just in times of grief and agony and hardship. So thank you for that.

Jackie Avilés (55:59)
Yes,

thank you so much for having me. I hope we do this again too.

Aaron Smith (56:04)
Yeah, we’ll have your husband on next time with you. Yeah. it would be great. Awesome. Thank you so much. God bless you.

Jackie Avilés (56:05)
Yes, that’d be awesome. He would love it. Thank you so, much. Yes. Thank you.